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Post by Brian of DBK on Aug 1, 2008 21:47:55 GMT
Ah, good to see that Brian is sharpening DSAs again. Of course you guys can do it better...you guys do everything the right way . Deathdude, I think that DSA's website might have the weight wrong. I have come across a fair number of the squires and none are nowhere near 2.5 lbs. Maybe Jason can get a few on a scale and give us some numbers on what the new ones run the gambit of weight on? Because honestly, if I didn't see how heavy, slow and sluggish one these swords are in real life, I would be tempted to pick one up (and many people did around here...only to be rather throughly disappointed as well...kinda why people around here don't really buy DSA anymore). Just to clarify, I'm not the one who sharpens swords for Arms of Valor. That would be Jason. I run my own sharpening service
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Post by Darksword Armory on Aug 12, 2008 20:10:41 GMT
Hi Guys,
The shop is closing for the day in 5 minutes, but we will reply tomorrow with detailed explanations as to the difference between the Norman, Squire and Knight sword. We appreciate your interest.
As for Cold Napalm, we have a huge fan base at SBG and numerous combat groups (ARMA, Black Bear in England, The medieval company in Canada and various other groups in Europe).
Thanks,
Steve Stevens DSA
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 23:19:50 GMT
Well I'm not saying nobody likes your swords...I can see your fan base in the forum. Ain't blind yet. And for something like a combat troupe, I would actually pick one of your swords...if I still did that anyways. In fact I tell people who still do it about you guys because I think your swords are pretty good for the price for doing that. Yeah the fitting may need some TLC...but these guys can give that so I'm not so worried.
But considering that a quote of 3 lb 1 ounce is given. We have one at 3 lb 8 ounces at my armoury and syntala has one at 2 lb 8 ounces and change. How do you explain this? I mean are these two oddballs and the next few squires we see gonna be around 3 lbs? We do have another one on the way to a forumite...are we gonna see around 3 lbs?
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Post by Darksword Armory on Aug 13, 2008 17:32:39 GMT
Hi buffjrod,
Thank you for your post. Over the past few months, we’ve received quite a few emails and inquiries over the Medieval Knight, Norman and Squire swords. They appear to be a favorite among SBG members and are among our top 5 best sellers.
In regards to style, I would like to thank shooterMike for his analysis. “shooter” is right on the ball about the three swords :
“…The Knight and the Norman are very different swords. The Norman has significant blade presence, think "chopper or basher". The Knight is much more pointy and balanced closer to the cross, think "poker with enough blade to cut". They seem to handle quite differently… But it really comes down to whether you want a thrusting sword that can cut pretty well (the Knight). Or a cutting sword that's heavily built and stiff enough to thrust (the Norman).”
The Norman and Squire (type XI) are fitted with the same blade. The length of the blade however differs on both models.
The Squire is 38” total, Blade: 30” blade Width: 2” 3lbs 4 oz.
The Norman is 35” total Blade: 28” blade Width: 2” 3 lbs 2 oz.
Although very similar in weigh and style, personally, I find that the Norman handles slightly better (again debatable), due to the shorter blade. The weight of the Squire extend slightly further up the tip, but offers good slashing power for downward cuts. Preference between the two however will really depend on your fighting style. I fight with sword and Shield for example. One of my favorite kill shots involves a powerful downward slash to the leg right above the knee, only to raise the sword in a smooth swift motion right before impact, bringing it over and around the opponent’s head (from left to right) and landing the shot on the right temple (basically a fake shot to the leg and landing on the temple). This motion is a great kill shot, lands almost every single time I perform it. This shot however, requires a sword with greater weight placed at the tip. That being said however, most people prefer lighter swords. This is where fighting styles come into play.
The discrepancies in regards to the weight of the Squire really come from the first as opposed to the second production, in which improvements were made. During the first production, the weight was 2 lbs 8 oz. I wasn’t completely satisfied with the guard and pommel however. We made certain corrections adding to the weight, but improving the overall handling abilities.
In regards to the knight sword: The Knight sword is more of a thrusting sword, very similar to those of the second half of the 14th C. (Type XVI). The blade is narrower and much pointier, as are thrusting swords
The knight sword is 35” total Blade: 28” Width is : 2” The weight is 3lbs 2 oz.
I hope this information clarifies at least some of your questions. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to contact us ( webmaster@darksword-armory.com )
Thanks again,
Eyal DSA
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Post by Darksword Armory on Aug 13, 2008 17:43:41 GMT
Hi Cold Napalm I appreciate your message. The discrepancy is explained in our previous post The change was attributed to improvements made between the first and second production run for the Squire sword. I can’t really comment on the 3 lbs 8 oz on “my armoury” however. We never made the sword at 3.8 lbs. The author was either estimating, had a poorly calibrated scale, or used an incorrect method (i.e., using a standard scale (whether digital or not), to determining “his” weight; repeating the process while holding the sword. Then deducting one weight to the other to determine the sword’s actual net weight. This leads to incorrect readings. Swords require very precise scales, as does jewelry. If you want to get the correct weight, you must use a proper (precision) scale. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Eyal, DSA www.darksword-armory.com
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 19:24:50 GMT
I haven't handle the knight yet, but the explaintion of the difference between the norman and squire seems spot on Eyal. As for the weight...I have seen the early run squires at 3 lb 8 ounces on more then one occasion and at 3 lbs I would say often on a baker's scale (very accurate...and I have one since I cook for a living) and on my ingot scale (also very accurate...I make jewelry for fun hehe). I haven't seen your latest squire at all in hand, so like I said, I'm going off from two example on forums at this point. And Syntala should have gotten it from your latest batch...which is where the mystery is coming from. In anycase, the squire in particular had weight issues for a while now...which unfortunately is why I don't see new ones from you guys around here anymore. They have kinda developed a bad rep. Well that and sharpening your guys swords by hand is a pain. But that's the price of tough blades so that's not a bad thing . BTW, did the squires grip get thicker? I swear when I had them in hand, they didn't seem that big, but seeing the pictures from Syn and the dimension she gave me, it seems pretty big now. I know you guys put better cores in the handle...so wondering if they got bigger too in the process (don't worry that it's too big since it fits Syn's hand...a 5 ft tall girl...just fine. I have funny shaped hands anyways, so if it fits my hands perfectly, you probably did something wrong hehe ;D ). And from what I see, I can easily say the squire is the most popular of your swords around here . I think it looks the best of the three personally. As for the rising snap, I actually have a harder time with those with tip heavy swords. Then again something with no blade presence is bad too...and I like having my CoP at around 21-22 inches so that you can go from a credible leg shot to a head shot and still hit in a decent area of the sword so you don't have to hammer the shot with popeye arms. Unfortunately, that shot is rather easily blocked with punch blocking...especially with center grip shields. But yes a sword that fits you really depends on how you fight and how you move.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 19:34:37 GMT
Thanks everybody for all the terrific input. It is outstanding to be able to have a conversation like this. Getting the straight scoop from the actual manufacturer as well as real-world reports from end users - I wish ALL my internet shopping could be like this! Eyal. Thanks for the details. That does help a lot. I actually already bought the Squire via the SBG store by the time you posted (its in a truck and I am watching its' progress to me online.. yeah.. just a little excited!), but your post just confirms that I did pick the right one for me. I think I ought to be able to manage any extra blade heaviness, as well as the over all weight. And as some one else here pointed out - its my first sword, so in my blissful ignorance, I won't be comparing it to anything else yet anyways. After narrowing things down to a 1 handed medieval sword, my choice was made based primarily on 3 things.. price, what it looks like, and the fact that I want to cut stuff on a stand in my backyard. I really like the curved guard and the wire wrapped grip - its going to look fantastic on my wall when not in use. As for cutting, I am a rank beginner, so I won't be doing any fancy combo moves for awhile - just simple one shot bottle slaying to start. If the Squire ends up being too difficult to control for that or more advanced things as I improve, well heck, I will just have to buy another new sword! Such a tragedy. In the end, I have to think that most swords, like most anything, are some sort of compromise between all the features you want in an object. It might out perform in one way, but you will have given up something somewhere else. That's why one is never quite enough. I will let you all know how it goes and what I think once I have had a chance to handle it for awhile. Buff
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Post by Darksword Armory on Aug 13, 2008 21:30:00 GMT
Hi Napalm,
The first batch dates from early 2007. The new batch is from March 2008. The handles haven't changed at all. We use the same fittings and blade as the original model we made. We sold quite a few of these since the second production. As stated, the Squire is among one of our top five best sellers. I haven't read any of the posts you are making reference to. Could you paste the link? I'm curious to see them. I have them listed at 3 lbs 4 oz. I haven't seen anyone listing them at 3 lbs 8 oz.
Thanks,
Eyal,
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 21:58:37 GMT
Sure thing Eyal . The myarmoury thread is here. www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13740Although if the new ones are suppose to weight 3 lb 4 ounces, I'm willing to say the remaining 4 ounces can be scale + forge variance pretty easily enough. And Syn's sword. /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6037Ultimately, both are quite happy with your swords so really, that is the important part really...right ? And let's be honest here, I have 1 sub 300 sword...and it really isn't as I put around 400 dollars into the sword (50 for grips 60 for scabbard and 50 for gems+ a 240 dollar gen 2 sword)...so I might not exactly be your market .
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Post by Darksword Armory on Aug 13, 2008 23:28:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2008 23:20:14 GMT
Geh, I just saw that the new design kick in starting March...that explains SOOOO much. While I have seen ones before reach 3 lbs, it does explain why the squires started coming in all really heavy all of a sudden. Geh, you guys need to update your websites more often . I though the heavier ones were just from this latest batch run of swords...not since from march.
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