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Post by captainharlock on Jan 29, 2020 23:21:25 GMT
This turned into a fascinating thread for me. In the river styx, the kozuka knife gets thrown into the saya. That’s the best look I remember from memory. I feel like I need to go back and rewatch them. Thanks for joining the discussion josh. Good to see you here!!!! That was indeed a kogatana/kozuka knife, but it belonged to a thug who threw it. Itto throws it back at him and it flies right into the saya pocket. Classic! Oh your right. I remember now!! Great scene!! If I can squeeze out some time I would like to rewatch them. It’s been a few years. I just sold my Animego copy for the Criterion.
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Post by snowbite on Feb 5, 2020 23:46:29 GMT
After a bit more zapruder investigating, it looks like no kogai on Lone Wolf's film sword. I've also just noticed the DK repro is missing the metal koiguchi fitting. By the way, this is about ten minutes into the River Styx movie (the best of the six, IMO), when he's in the bathtub when he thinks he hears the assassins coming. You get brief closeups of the hilt area on both sides. wow, great screencap-fu! yep, no second accessory. so DK has the kozuka on the correct side, traditionally. now the question is, is the object we see in the movie and tv version actually a kozuka/kogatana or could it really be a kogai? is there a shot of the tool out of the saya? For the record, I've now spent more time researching this than I did my own wedding 🤣 Ok, so in Baby Cart to Hades at about 33:50 when the pistol-packing yakuza lady comes to punish the prostitute, Itto uses his tatami mat stab trick to block (!) her second shot from about twenty feet, then throws it into the percussion cap pistol mechanism preventing her third [from two barrels?] shot. He draws it from the saya, from the omote "domed" hole which would suggest it's a kogai, right? It kinda looks like a kogai, but it doesn't have the little nubby ear cleaner at the butt end like google tells me they usually had. The construction also looks monolithic, rather than a distinct knife + handle. www.dropbox.com/s/yjjnubcc0mwhwf8/lone%20wolf%20kogai%20large.png?raw=1
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Post by bradc on Feb 6, 2020 0:01:43 GMT
wow, great screencap-fu! yep, no second accessory. so DK has the kozuka on the correct side, traditionally. now the question is, is the object we see in the movie and tv version actually a kozuka/kogatana or could it really be a kogai? is there a shot of the tool out of the saya? For the record, I've now spent more time researching this than I did my own wedding 🤣 Ok, so in Baby Cart to Hades at about 33:50 when the pistol-packing yakuza lady comes to punish the prostitute, Itto uses his tatami mat stab trick to block (!) her second shot from about twenty feet, then throws it into the percussion cap pistol mechanism preventing her third [from two barrels?] shot. He draws it from the saya, from the omote "domed" hole which would suggest it's a kogai, right? It kinda looks like a kogai, but it doesn't have the little nubby ear cleaner at the butt end like google tells me they usually had. The construction also looks monolithic, rather than a distinct knife + handle. www.dropbox.com/s/yjjnubcc0mwhwf8/lone%20wolf%20kogai%20large.png?raw=1Amazing that was worth every minute you spent! Looks like a kogai to me. Maybe O-Kogai (I have seen one without the end bit). Or do I see a hint of tape holding a wari-kogai (has another name I cant recall, but they pivot apart at the handle like chopsticks) together? FYI There is a picture a split kogai here www.aoijapan.com/set-of-tosogu-kozuka-saw-kozuka-kogatana-unusual-kogai-bashin-mumei-den-ichijp/
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Post by captainharlock on Feb 6, 2020 2:40:12 GMT
wow, great screencap-fu! yep, no second accessory. so DK has the kozuka on the correct side, traditionally. now the question is, is the object we see in the movie and tv version actually a kozuka/kogatana or could it really be a kogai? is there a shot of the tool out of the saya? For the record, I've now spent more time researching this than I did my own wedding 🤣 Ok, so in Baby Cart to Hades at about 33:50 when the pistol-packing yakuza lady comes to punish the prostitute, Itto uses his tatami mat stab trick to block (!) her second shot from about twenty feet, then throws it into the percussion cap pistol mechanism preventing her third [from two barrels?] shot. He draws it from the saya, from the omote "domed" hole which would suggest it's a kogai, right? It kinda looks like a kogai, but it doesn't have the little nubby ear cleaner at the butt end like google tells me they usually had. The construction also looks monolithic, rather than a distinct knife + handle. www.dropbox.com/s/yjjnubcc0mwhwf8/lone%20wolf%20kogai%20large.png?raw=1It does look like a kogai to me and the dragon king looks completely different
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 6, 2020 3:01:02 GMT
wow, great screencap-fu! yep, no second accessory. so DK has the kozuka on the correct side, traditionally. now the question is, is the object we see in the movie and tv version actually a kozuka/kogatana or could it really be a kogai? is there a shot of the tool out of the saya? For the record, I've now spent more time researching this than I did my own wedding 🤣 Ok, so in Baby Cart to Hades at about 33:50 when the pistol-packing yakuza lady comes to punish the prostitute, Itto uses his tatami mat stab trick to block (!) her second shot from about twenty feet, then throws it into the percussion cap pistol mechanism preventing her third [from two barrels?] shot. He draws it from the saya, from the omote "domed" hole which would suggest it's a kogai, right? It kinda looks like a kogai, but it doesn't have the little nubby ear cleaner at the butt end like google tells me they usually had. The construction also looks monolithic, rather than a distinct knife + handle. www.dropbox.com/s/yjjnubcc0mwhwf8/lone%20wolf%20kogai%20large.png?raw=1Again, excellent PI work! I agree that the general shaping of the shaft looks to be kogai, as well as the hitsu-ana in the tsuba looking like the one for kogai but I'm not versed well enough in some details regarding these tools to know why the body looks more like a kozuka. possibly an umabari or even bashin? not sure. it could also be down to the accuracy of the prop department finding the historically correct parts and pieces, could be a mashup of sorts. either way, I guess DK did the best they could to add an accessory while also making it practical. imo, the sword they produced represents the movie/show prop enough to warrant the name and if nothing else, they did a great job with the tsuba, which is so iconic itself.
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Post by captainharlock on Feb 6, 2020 4:05:57 GMT
For the record, I've now spent more time researching this than I did my own wedding 🤣 Ok, so in Baby Cart to Hades at about 33:50 when the pistol-packing yakuza lady comes to punish the prostitute, Itto uses his tatami mat stab trick to block (!) her second shot from about twenty feet, then throws it into the percussion cap pistol mechanism preventing her third [from two barrels?] shot. He draws it from the saya, from the omote "domed" hole which would suggest it's a kogai, right? It kinda looks like a kogai, but it doesn't have the little nubby ear cleaner at the butt end like google tells me they usually had. The construction also looks monolithic, rather than a distinct knife + handle. www.dropbox.com/s/yjjnubcc0mwhwf8/lone%20wolf%20kogai%20large.png?raw=1Again, excellent PI work! I agree that the general shaping of the shaft looks to be kogai, as well as the hitsu-ana in the tsuba looking like the one for kogai but I'm not versed well enough in some details regarding these tools to know why the body looks more like a kozuka. possibly an umabari or even bashin? not sure. it could also be down to the accuracy of the prop department finding the historically correct parts and pieces, could be a mashup of sorts. either way, I guess DK did the best they could to add an accessory while also making it practical. imo, the sword they produced represents the movie/show prop enough to warrant the name and if nothing else, they did a great job with the tsuba, which is so iconic itself. I agree. It’s not perfect but it’s close enough and I doubt anyone else is going to be making one. The tsuba is great and they did a great job of replicating the patina. This thread has been a lot of fun for me and while I bought the sword, I know I will be thrilled once josh works his magic on mine.
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Post by snowbite on Feb 6, 2020 16:34:32 GMT
bradc I think that tape visible in my third pic is how the film crew attached a wire or stick to hold & maneuver the flying kogai/o-kogai while filming it. I've learned a lot from this exercise. This kind of pedantry is fun for me in a nerdy masochistic way
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Post by bradc on Feb 6, 2020 16:37:30 GMT
bradc I think that tape visible in my third pic is how the film crew attached a wire or stick to hold & maneuver the flying kogai/o-kogai while filming it. I've learned a lot from this exercise. This kind of pedantry is fun for me in a nerdy masochistic way Ah good call! This thread is the best kind of esoteric pedantry
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Post by bradc on Feb 9, 2020 5:59:25 GMT
wow, great screencap-fu! yep, no second accessory. so DK has the kozuka on the correct side, traditionally. now the question is, is the object we see in the movie and tv version actually a kozuka/kogatana or could it really be a kogai? is there a shot of the tool out of the saya? For the record, I've now spent more time researching this than I did my own wedding 🤣 Ok, so in Baby Cart to Hades at about 33:50 when the pistol-packing yakuza lady comes to punish the prostitute, Itto uses his tatami mat stab trick to block (!) her second shot from about twenty feet, then throws it into the percussion cap pistol mechanism preventing her third [from two barrels?] shot. He draws it from the saya, from the omote "domed" hole which would suggest it's a kogai, right? It kinda looks like a kogai, but it doesn't have the little nubby ear cleaner at the butt end like google tells me they usually had. The construction also looks monolithic, rather than a distinct knife + handle. www.dropbox.com/s/yjjnubcc0mwhwf8/lone%20wolf%20kogai%20large.png?raw=1I did a little more digging and found an example of a kogai with a rounded off handle. Page 62 - Zusetsu Nihonto Yogo Jiten It's on a tanto but it is labeled Kogai on the omote side. The ura side has a kozuka with a similar shaped handle.
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Post by snowbite on Feb 9, 2020 13:59:58 GMT
Cool!
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Post by captainharlock on Feb 15, 2020 14:48:31 GMT
Josh sent me this photo of the tsuka completed for those who are interested. I think it came out great.
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Post by snowbite on Feb 15, 2020 15:13:26 GMT
A W E S O M E ! 👍👍
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Feb 15, 2020 16:28:16 GMT
Very nice!
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Post by bradc on Feb 16, 2020 18:01:54 GMT
Looks Great!
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Post by socratesjohnson on Feb 25, 2020 20:16:55 GMT
I really wanted to like this sword, but when I finally got a chance to see one in person, I was really disappointed. I was excited that someone finally offered Ogami Itto's dotanuki. But I think Dragon King missed the mark in so many ways. Not sure what version of Ogami Itto's sword they were going for. It doesn't exactly match the manga, the movies, or any of the TV series. It seems like a mash up of all of them. The blade is too thin/light to be a dotanuki. The tsuka is wrapped incorrectly. And the saya is not a full rattan wrap. They got the koshirae mostly correct, and that's about it.
Such a shame. I would have gladly paid the asking price for a functional, faithful, re-creation of the sword from the original movies, as that one is the most iconic.
It would be nice if someone offered just the koshirae. Unfortunately, Dragon King doesn't sell any parts separately. Tozando and Yamato Budogu also sell a couple of iaido swords with the same koshirae as the DK Ogami Itto sword. But they don't sell those separately, either, and $1100 is way too much for a non-functional sword.
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Post by captainharlock on Feb 25, 2020 22:35:15 GMT
I really wanted to like this sword, but when I finally got a chance to see one in person, I was really disappointed. I was excited that someone finally offered Ogami Itto's dotanuki. But I think Dragon King missed the mark in so many ways. Not sure what version of Ogami Itto's sword they were going for. It doesn't exactly match the manga, the movies, or any of the TV series. It seems like a mash up of all of them. The blade is too thin/light to be a dotanuki. The tsuka is wrapped incorrectly. And the saya is not a full rattan wrap. They got the koshirae mostly correct, and that's about it. Such a shame. I would have gladly paid the asking price for a functional, faithful, re-creation of the sword from the original movies, as that one is the most iconic. It would be nice if someone offered just the koshirae. Unfortunately, Dragon King doesn't sell any parts separately. Tozando and Yamato Budogu also sell a couple of iaido swords with the same koshirae as the DK Ogami Itto sword. But they don't sell those separately, either, and $1100 is way too much for a non-functional sword. I agree with much of what you say as far as the blade not being robust enough for a dotanuki blade but if you watch the movie neither is the actual sword prop any different that a normal katana blade. As far as the wrap goes, easy fix. The saya—more expensive fix and not worth it. It’s close enough. If you want 100 percent screen accuracy, I suggest you commission a blade and take copious notes. Now as far as a functional sword goes, it’s as functional as a bugei or Hanwei blade meaning it will cut and it is assembled as well as you would expect for the price point. If you pay 1100 for the sword then you are paying too much. I got mine for a little over 700 shipped plus I had the tsuka redone. For a what is essentially a movie prop for me, I am completely satisfied. If you want to cut with with, it will do that. So I have no clue what you mean by non-functional. For those who are interested in a sword that represents ogami Itto’s sword from the lone wolf and cub series, this sword is more than adequate. And if you are interested in cutting with it, it can do that too. I just wouldn’t cut bamboo (ie medium to heavy targets) with it.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Feb 25, 2020 22:44:20 GMT
Hey guys, go over to the Manufacturer’s and Vendors board and there is a post about this sword that cottontail Customs redid for a client. I have no idea about this series at all but the sword looks pretty good and is getting compliments from people who do know.
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Post by captainharlock on Feb 25, 2020 23:02:35 GMT
Hey guys, go over to the Manufacturer’s and Vendors board and there is a post about this sword that cottontail Customs redid for a client. I have no idea about this series at all but the sword looks pretty good and is getting compliments from people who do know. Ok. Thanks for letting me know. I believe that’s my sword by the way so I do know and it’s a pretty good for what I think is a fair amount of money.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Feb 26, 2020 0:04:41 GMT
Hey guys, go over to the Manufacturer’s and Vendors board and there is a post about this sword that cottontail Customs redid for a client. I have no idea about this series at all but the sword looks pretty good and is getting compliments from people who do know. Ok. Thanks for letting me know. I believe that’s my sword by the way so I do know and it’s a pretty good for what I think is a fair amount of money. Didn’t know it was yours. Nice sword, even if I don’t know anything about the series, movies, etc. Hope to get cc to do some work for me someday.
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Post by captainharlock on Feb 26, 2020 2:54:53 GMT
Ok. Thanks for letting me know. I believe that’s my sword by the way so I do know and it’s a pretty good for what I think is a fair amount of money. Didn’t know it was yours. Nice sword, even if I don’t know anything about the series, movies, etc. Hope to get cc to do some work for me someday. That’s ok. Josh at Cottontail is a class act for sure. He was always very prompt with communications and his work speaks for himself. For what you get, his prices are impressively reasonable.
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