AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 21, 2019 21:43:18 GMT
My CS Jade Lion Jian might be on the heavy side for a jian but I see similarities to a spadroon. Straight double edge cut and thrust blade, fast and nimble. Usually a jian is praised for this and a spadroon is said to be too sluggish compared to a smallsword and too flimsy compared to a longsword. And a spadroon at least has the better hand protection. Your thoughts?
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Sept 21, 2019 22:07:04 GMT
jian blades are wider then spadroons usually no? and less pointy
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 21, 2019 22:11:28 GMT
Variations of both can be really similar. Jian have no fuller afaik and some jian are lightweight.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 22:31:40 GMT
Jian have two full edges and variable. If you want to call your's a spadroon far be it from me to even go further in thoughts.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 21, 2019 22:37:39 GMT
Finally I summoned you! How's Settler's Day weekend?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 0:35:39 GMT
The kids are always great during those two great days annually.
The camera is in the vehicle, so no pictures unless I survive day two. Not to worry but there were fewer setting up than I had seen. The National Guard had been bringing a portable wall but that was not on site. The old blacksmith/tinker is gone, which I used to look for as one of my generation.
Semi roasted in this Indian Summer weather. I did set up in the early day shade but by 2pm, I was in the incubator. Of all the folk that say they'd love to help, there has only been one regular that has helped a great deal. The neighbor hawk tossing guy and senior at the club is also always ready. I hadn't brought my evening heart meds and it showed I should have, and hydrated a bit more.
"Where are the crusader and Kill Bill swords!" A standard from people that had grown up with seeing so many genre displayed. I have missed only three days since 2003. I missed last year and a Sunday back in 2006. The most activity is typically up at the gun ranges.
Crossposted to the appropriate thread.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 22, 2019 15:05:37 GMT
This thread wasn't only a joke. I see similarities between both swords as light straight cut and thrust swords. Also the role as a sign for a higher social status compared to the "working man" weapons dao or cutlass.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Sept 22, 2019 21:32:00 GMT
Others have commented on the similarity before. However, an average fighting jian weighs more than the average spadroon (counting full-length swords only). The usual weight range is about 650g to 1.2kg.
The classic Ming/Qing jian is a cut-and-thrust sword, but I'd just leave the description as that, without adding your "light".
There are lighter antique jian (still with long blades), but they're likely to have been purely dress items with no plan for them to ever be used as weapons, and no attempt to design them for real use as weapons.
(There are also much heavier jian - ritual/Daoist/talismanic jian could exceed 2kg. Clearly, bigger is better when it comes to doing magic with swords.)
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 23, 2019 3:26:23 GMT
Others have commented on the similarity before. However, an average fighting jian weighs more than the average spadroon (counting full-length swords only). The usual weight range is about 650g to 1.2kg. The classic Ming/Qing jian is a cut-and-thrust sword, but I'd just leave the description as that, without adding your "light". There are lighter antique jian (still with long blades), but they're likely to have been purely dress items with no plan for them to ever be used as weapons, and no attempt to design them for real use as weapons. (There are also much heavier jian - ritual/Daoist/talismanic jian could exceed 2kg. Clearly, bigger is better when it comes to doing magic with swords.) I always imagined Jian to be light for some reason. Maybe because of kung Fu movies making them look like floppy little things.
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Post by howler on Sept 23, 2019 3:48:49 GMT
Others have commented on the similarity before. However, an average fighting jian weighs more than the average spadroon (counting full-length swords only). The usual weight range is about 650g to 1.2kg. The classic Ming/Qing jian is a cut-and-thrust sword, but I'd just leave the description as that, without adding your "light". There are lighter antique jian (still with long blades), but they're likely to have been purely dress items with no plan for them to ever be used as weapons, and no attempt to design them for real use as weapons. (There are also much heavier jian - ritual/Daoist/talismanic jian could exceed 2kg. Clearly, bigger is better when it comes to doing magic with swords.) I always imagined Jian to be light for some reason. Maybe because of kung Fu movies making them look like floppy little things. Hollywood and the movies will do that, all to make the fast, wild swinging arcs (think rapier as epee) the audiences love to see, and the actors get the advantage of not having to lug around bigger hunks of steel. Of course in other period movies, swords (think longsword as greatsword) were viewed as ponderous bashers you had to be Conan to wield.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 23, 2019 4:22:50 GMT
I always imagined Jian to be light for some reason. Maybe because of kung Fu movies making them look like floppy little things. Hollywood and the movies will do that, all to make the fast, wild swinging arcs (think rapier as epee) the audiences love to see, and the actors get the advantage of not having to lug around bigger hunks of steel. Of course in other period movies, swords (think longsword as greatsword) were viewed as ponderous bashers you had to be Conan to wield. Weird thing is that some people prefer to see them as big heavy swords, as they think it's manlier. I read some comments in Rolands theories on viking sword use, and some guys were so mad that vikings were not dirty, leather covered savages who relied on brute strength and that they may have actually relied on technique
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Post by howler on Sept 23, 2019 4:38:05 GMT
Hollywood and the movies will do that, all to make the fast, wild swinging arcs (think rapier as epee) the audiences love to see, and the actors get the advantage of not having to lug around bigger hunks of steel. Of course in other period movies, swords (think longsword as greatsword) were viewed as ponderous bashers you had to be Conan to wield. Weird thing is that some people prefer to see them as big heavy swords, as they think it's manlier. I read some comments in Rolands theories on viking sword use, and some guys were so mad that vikings were not dirty, leather covered savages who relied on brute strength and that they may have actually relied on technique I'd love to watch a berserker fight...at a distance, of course, worked up into a substance induced orgy of frenzied bloodlust...but enough about me...lets focus on the berserker.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 23, 2019 6:33:22 GMT
In the viking era swords were so expensive that only the viking aristocrats could afford one. And they also had to know how to use them with their broad and thin blades. No brutally hacking into shields! I guess they used them similar to jian and spadroons, avoiding hard impacts and instead trying to slice the opponent behind his shield. How would you fight against a viking with axe and shield with Miss Flexy?
To weight: My Jade Lion Gim should be in the avarage range for jian afaik. It's a bit heavier than an avarage spadroon but it gave me the idea to compare them.
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Post by markus313 on Sept 23, 2019 6:58:24 GMT
In the viking era swords were so expensive that only the viking aristocrats could afford one. And they also had to know how to use them with their broad and thin blades. No brutally hacking into shields! I guess they used them similar to jian and spadroons, avoiding hard impacts and instead trying to slice the opponent behind his shield. Yes, no hacking into shields, that would be a bad choice. A good choice is trying to catch the sword with the shield. But slicing through thick clothing? While the other is trying to bury his axe in you? Seriously? R.W. must be some kind of magician. Every historic evidence we have (archaeology, the Iceland Sagas) hints on that they struck with power, and a lot of that. Plus there is recreational testing (and R.W. cuddling with swords and "opponents", though it seems ususally it's just one "opponent").
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 23, 2019 7:01:13 GMT
Again I guess: They tried to hit where no thick clothes are. (edit) And of course with power, but aiming for soft parts. Would be nice to see a movie where berserks fly through woods like in the Chinese movies!
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Post by markus313 on Sept 23, 2019 7:04:51 GMT
Again I guess: They tried to hit where no thick clothes are. Where? The face? Hardest part to get, all while trying to not get off-balanced or struck decisively with a strong blow.
Youtube warriors rule the present and past, it seems.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 23, 2019 7:18:25 GMT
The other one has the same problem! I didn't mean they fought like Chinese swordsmen in the wushu movies. Only that they didn't try to hack the opponent's shield (like Wagner vs. Mason) but use technique to hit where it makes sense considering the advantages and disadvantages of a viking sword.
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Post by markus313 on Sept 23, 2019 7:55:45 GMT
The other one has the same problem! I didn't mean they fought like Chinese swordsmen in the wushu movies. Only that they didn't try to hack the opponent's shield (like Wagner vs. Mason) but use technique to hit where it makes sense considering the advantages and disadvantages of a viking sword. Not if he has a drastically larger target area (targeting the whole body vs. less thickly clothed areas). Do you have a link to the Wagner vs. Mason bout? In general I think the Stocatta stuff is miles above what R.W. fantasizes about. In testing, I found a sword getting stuck in a shield (probably of being) problematic (for the swordsman; tested with sharps under control, not tried in sparring). Then again there is this (not really sharp swords, though)...
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 23, 2019 8:20:40 GMT
The endfight of the old Prince Valiant movie! No link, sorry.
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Post by markus313 on Sept 23, 2019 8:26:57 GMT
Oh, I thought you meant Paul Wagner, not Robert.
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