Windlass’ M1840 NCO vs CS’s USMC NCO Sword
Sept 21, 2019 20:29:50 GMT
Post by pgandy on Sept 21, 2019 20:29:50 GMT
This is in reply as how does the Windlass M1840 NCO sword compare to CS USMC NCO sword.
My impressions of the USMC sword are a little more than first impressions. I haven’t had time to sharpen nor cut with it yet.
I have no connections with any vendor nor manufacturer and paid the asking price.
Comparing the two is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges as they were intended to be used differently. I like each and each have features that I like that the other is lacking. I’ll state the difference as I see them and let the reader decide.
But first a statement on each. The M1840 is about half the price of the CS. It can be had from a number of vendors, the most recognized is KoA for $116.96. With the promo code about the same price from MRL. The shipping will be the tie breaker. If one is patient and waits it’s possible to obtain one with a 15% or even rarely a 20% discount from MRL perhaps. But with the already low price the savings might not be worth the wait. The sword that I have came from MRL’s sister company ACC and is the Ames’ version. The biggest difference is that it has a leather sheath and sells for $149.95. I got mine on sale at 15% off. Lately MRL has been charging for shipping and ACC is free shipping. A review can be found at sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/56791/windlass-new-m1840-sword-5000836?page=1 .
The CS USMC NCO sword is now discontinued but I think is still possible with a hard search to find one. Mine came from KoA at $176.95, the going price with most vendors breaks the $200 mark. The one I have is from the original run before Thompson got caught and had to change from using the Corps’ logo. The accepted name skips me at the moment but the term logo is close enough. The modified version did not change other than the logo. Mine came with a good quality carrying case, much better than I’ve received with the run-of-mill katanas.
To save reading, in a nut shell I can say that the M1840 is lighter making it faster, easier to carry, and less fatiguing. It handles more like a small sword. It should give point better. It’s well worth the money. The CS is better made. Not that the M1840 is poorly made. It has a cut and thrust blade. It is a little heavier with more blade presence that should help in the cutting.
To get into more detail:
My measurements
M1840 USMC
OAL/in 37¼ 373/8
Blade length/in 31½ 317/8
PoB/in 4 47/8
CoP/in 197/8 233/4
Blade Thickness/mm 4.7-3.2 6.5-2.6
Blade width/mm 20.8 21.6
Weight/lb-oz 1lb-13oz 1lb-13.6oz
Grip/in 37/8 33/4
Grip Cir*/in 3 3.½
Wt. Total 2lb-5oz 2lb-15.7oz
* Circumference of grip at maximum point
The Blade
M1840: Straight with a fuller extending nearly the length of blade the rest flat diamond. It comes unsharpened. I sharpened the foible’s false edge and 22” of the true edge with a convex edge. This is a thrusting blade with excellent penetration abilities. And will cut typical light targets. But I have without trying first discounted it cutting a gallon bleach bottle in half. I believe that will be a bit much for this sword and I’ll only received an impact shock and the sword possibly worse. It will effortlessly pass through by giving point, as it’s intended to do. Comes w/o washer, that’s a DIY job.
USMC: Curved cut and thrust blade w/fuller with a flat diamond. Technically it comes with the final 13” of the blade sharpened but mine will barely cut paper. I haven’t had time to sharpen nor cut yet but just guessing it will cut better than the M1840 but not by much due to the limited 13” length of sharpening and not penetrate as well but well enough. I will update this post after a cutting session. I believe that the blade is more curved than the issue sword. Should come w/washer, mine didn’t.
The Hilt
M1840: The guard is symmetrical clam shell hilt w/ knuckle bow making it ambidextrous. I was not able to measure the width of either hilt as it is greater than the capacity of my callipers. However the guard extends about 1.3” from the blade on both sides and is in general along with the knuckle bow smaller than the USMC. However the guard gives more protection for the thumb of a RH user. See photo. Although the guard protrudes farther on the left side than the USMC I find no discomfort in the carry either w/frog or baldric. In fact it’s more comfortable to carry due to its weight. The grip also has a smaller diameter but works OK in my size 8 hand. A gauntlet makes a better fit but is very usable without. I believe that the brass grip will be more durable in the long run. The brass castings while simple are less well done and there was a parting seam and a little flash in the grip that I removed.
USMC: Is beefier all around and is asymmetrical. The guard extends about 1.1" past the blade on the left and 1.67” on the right. The larger grip fills my hand better but I find a gauntlet makes it more comfortable. The brass castings are far more detailed than the M1840’s are better executed and all parting seams expertly polished out.
The Sheath/Scabbard
M1840: Could best be summed up by saying a typical Windlass sheath. However I dare say this would come close to matching the originals as I seriously doubt they had a core. The seam where the two ends meet is expertly done with the ends tucked in. I like the fact that locket wraps around the leather sheath as on drawing the edge does not brush against the metal locket itself.
USMC: Rigid with a leather wrapped core. It is the best sword/scabbard fit of any of my swords. The sword slides in and out effortlessly with no binding and does so smooth as silk and is held with no jiggling or movement. The only real negative I have with either sword is the seam on this scabbard. It is well done but the ends turn outward and the ends are stiff. It is unfriendly to the touch, and a sore to the eye and probably will have an adverse effect on clothing over time. It seems totally out of tune with the sword. With this scabbard the locket has a slotted piece attached across the top that the blade passes through. This gives additional strength but it’s next to impossible to draw without the blade’s edge rubbing across the metal. I know, the 1055 steel is harder than the brass but nevertheless... The good news is, and this is the only sword that this technique has successfully worked other than katanas for me, is to hold the scabbard inverted and draw carefully.
Throats M1840 Sheath
USMC Scabbard USMC Scabbard
Handling
I haven’t done any cutting with the USMC yet only dry handling, and will add that later but I don’t expect any great difference between the two. This is the only sword that I wish that I had two off, the other one being the modified version and then I would follow AndiThe Barvarian’s lead in his words “I sharpened the blunt forte and the false edge, sanded the black etching and rewrapped the grip.My CS Naval Officers Sword is lighter and faster but the NCO Saber is still nimble but has more power.A comparison with the 1840 would be nice, I'm tempted to buy it as a big brother of the Naval Sword.” I believe that would greatly increase the performance. Perhaps he will put some words around that. The M1840 is more agile and handles much like a small sword. I like them both but for different reasons, the USMC being more personal.
My impressions of the USMC sword are a little more than first impressions. I haven’t had time to sharpen nor cut with it yet.
I have no connections with any vendor nor manufacturer and paid the asking price.
Comparing the two is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges as they were intended to be used differently. I like each and each have features that I like that the other is lacking. I’ll state the difference as I see them and let the reader decide.
But first a statement on each. The M1840 is about half the price of the CS. It can be had from a number of vendors, the most recognized is KoA for $116.96. With the promo code about the same price from MRL. The shipping will be the tie breaker. If one is patient and waits it’s possible to obtain one with a 15% or even rarely a 20% discount from MRL perhaps. But with the already low price the savings might not be worth the wait. The sword that I have came from MRL’s sister company ACC and is the Ames’ version. The biggest difference is that it has a leather sheath and sells for $149.95. I got mine on sale at 15% off. Lately MRL has been charging for shipping and ACC is free shipping. A review can be found at sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/56791/windlass-new-m1840-sword-5000836?page=1 .
The CS USMC NCO sword is now discontinued but I think is still possible with a hard search to find one. Mine came from KoA at $176.95, the going price with most vendors breaks the $200 mark. The one I have is from the original run before Thompson got caught and had to change from using the Corps’ logo. The accepted name skips me at the moment but the term logo is close enough. The modified version did not change other than the logo. Mine came with a good quality carrying case, much better than I’ve received with the run-of-mill katanas.
To save reading, in a nut shell I can say that the M1840 is lighter making it faster, easier to carry, and less fatiguing. It handles more like a small sword. It should give point better. It’s well worth the money. The CS is better made. Not that the M1840 is poorly made. It has a cut and thrust blade. It is a little heavier with more blade presence that should help in the cutting.
To get into more detail:
My measurements
M1840 USMC
OAL/in 37¼ 373/8
Blade length/in 31½ 317/8
PoB/in 4 47/8
CoP/in 197/8 233/4
Blade Thickness/mm 4.7-3.2 6.5-2.6
Blade width/mm 20.8 21.6
Weight/lb-oz 1lb-13oz 1lb-13.6oz
Grip/in 37/8 33/4
Grip Cir*/in 3 3.½
Wt. Total 2lb-5oz 2lb-15.7oz
* Circumference of grip at maximum point
The Blade
M1840: Straight with a fuller extending nearly the length of blade the rest flat diamond. It comes unsharpened. I sharpened the foible’s false edge and 22” of the true edge with a convex edge. This is a thrusting blade with excellent penetration abilities. And will cut typical light targets. But I have without trying first discounted it cutting a gallon bleach bottle in half. I believe that will be a bit much for this sword and I’ll only received an impact shock and the sword possibly worse. It will effortlessly pass through by giving point, as it’s intended to do. Comes w/o washer, that’s a DIY job.
USMC: Curved cut and thrust blade w/fuller with a flat diamond. Technically it comes with the final 13” of the blade sharpened but mine will barely cut paper. I haven’t had time to sharpen nor cut yet but just guessing it will cut better than the M1840 but not by much due to the limited 13” length of sharpening and not penetrate as well but well enough. I will update this post after a cutting session. I believe that the blade is more curved than the issue sword. Should come w/washer, mine didn’t.
The Hilt
M1840: The guard is symmetrical clam shell hilt w/ knuckle bow making it ambidextrous. I was not able to measure the width of either hilt as it is greater than the capacity of my callipers. However the guard extends about 1.3” from the blade on both sides and is in general along with the knuckle bow smaller than the USMC. However the guard gives more protection for the thumb of a RH user. See photo. Although the guard protrudes farther on the left side than the USMC I find no discomfort in the carry either w/frog or baldric. In fact it’s more comfortable to carry due to its weight. The grip also has a smaller diameter but works OK in my size 8 hand. A gauntlet makes a better fit but is very usable without. I believe that the brass grip will be more durable in the long run. The brass castings while simple are less well done and there was a parting seam and a little flash in the grip that I removed.
USMC: Is beefier all around and is asymmetrical. The guard extends about 1.1" past the blade on the left and 1.67” on the right. The larger grip fills my hand better but I find a gauntlet makes it more comfortable. The brass castings are far more detailed than the M1840’s are better executed and all parting seams expertly polished out.
The Sheath/Scabbard
M1840: Could best be summed up by saying a typical Windlass sheath. However I dare say this would come close to matching the originals as I seriously doubt they had a core. The seam where the two ends meet is expertly done with the ends tucked in. I like the fact that locket wraps around the leather sheath as on drawing the edge does not brush against the metal locket itself.
USMC: Rigid with a leather wrapped core. It is the best sword/scabbard fit of any of my swords. The sword slides in and out effortlessly with no binding and does so smooth as silk and is held with no jiggling or movement. The only real negative I have with either sword is the seam on this scabbard. It is well done but the ends turn outward and the ends are stiff. It is unfriendly to the touch, and a sore to the eye and probably will have an adverse effect on clothing over time. It seems totally out of tune with the sword. With this scabbard the locket has a slotted piece attached across the top that the blade passes through. This gives additional strength but it’s next to impossible to draw without the blade’s edge rubbing across the metal. I know, the 1055 steel is harder than the brass but nevertheless... The good news is, and this is the only sword that this technique has successfully worked other than katanas for me, is to hold the scabbard inverted and draw carefully.
Throats M1840 Sheath
USMC Scabbard USMC Scabbard
Handling
I haven’t done any cutting with the USMC yet only dry handling, and will add that later but I don’t expect any great difference between the two. This is the only sword that I wish that I had two off, the other one being the modified version and then I would follow AndiThe Barvarian’s lead in his words “I sharpened the blunt forte and the false edge, sanded the black etching and rewrapped the grip.My CS Naval Officers Sword is lighter and faster but the NCO Saber is still nimble but has more power.A comparison with the 1840 would be nice, I'm tempted to buy it as a big brother of the Naval Sword.” I believe that would greatly increase the performance. Perhaps he will put some words around that. The M1840 is more agile and handles much like a small sword. I like them both but for different reasons, the USMC being more personal.