Help identifying a possible British Naval sword

Welcome aboard

The dimensions are very helpful.

In the movie Master&Commander, a similar looking sword hilt is shown and perhaps that is part of why it is listed as such. It is not and had never been a typical British officer's sword or cutlass. The blade has been cut down and it is possibly also entirely a composite piece. Generally speaking, one would view such as an mounted artillery officer's sword, a flank officer sword, or a few other possibilities but British regulation patterns for their navy would eliminate this description for this sword.

If window shopping, do yourself a favor and don't consider swords in rough shape unless you have the means to fix them. This one has a distorted hilt, cracked grip and as mentioned, a cut down blade. Someone running a general auction perhaps went by the seller's description or are simply a bit unaware. This can work to one's favor in finding a real bargain but this one has some pretty minimal value except as a relic.

This one looks to be of the first quarter 19th century and likely a US mounted artillery officer's private purchase but even cut down the blade curvature is such that it might have once been a British infantry flank officer sword. There is no way to know for sure.

Cheers
GC



www.qsl.net/wb1gfh/swords.html

Iirc, this is the sword Tony Swatton of Hollywood  did for Master&Commander


www.swordandstone.com/

At this length, it would be usually described as a dirk rather than a sword. There was a tradition of curved naval dirks, used by the British and by others. These were usually worn by midshipmen, at the time apprentice officers rather than officers proper. They didn't carry proper swords since they weren't yet proper officers. Curved dirks appear to have been most common in British usage in the late 18th century, existing alongside straight (usually double-edged) dirks.

Some examples:



www.sailorinsaddle.com/product.aspx?id=1206
www.andrewbottomley.com/x-x-x-sold-x-x-x--a-rare-18th-century-british-naval-dirk-from-the-napoleonic-era--battle-of-trafalgar-period-ref-6583-363-p.asp
www.andrewbottomley.com/x-x-x-sold-x-x-x--a-superb-mameluke-shaped-british-hilted-naval-dirk-dating-from-the-time-of-the-napoleonic-wars-circa-1780-1815-ref-7200-566-p.asp
victoriansword.tumblr.com/post/165330383016/british-naval-dirk-c1790-1800-georgian-naval

These often have (a) brass hilts and (b) white grips, often ivory (elephant or marine). Naval officers' swords in general often had brass hilts and white grips, whether ivory, bone, or white fish/ray skin. E.g., www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/430727151855726046/ While full-size swords typically had knucklbows or partial baskets, dirks usually had either a simple cross-guard or a knuckle-chain.

This does lead to over-identification, with, e.g., Indian tourist souvenir knives with brass/bone hilts being labelled as "Napoleonic War naval dirk", something with will usually sell for more than "Indian souvenir knife, 20th century". (Similarly, "Confederate bowie" is a popular label.) In the absence of naval markings (such as the fouled anchor, etc.) or a reliable provenance, calling it "naval" is just a guess. But a fair guess. The alternative is that it is a much-shortened sword, probably either militia/yeomanry or flank officer's. How thick is the base of the blade, and how does the blade thin along its length?

First, big British dirks tend to have blades from about 16" to 20" in length:
collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-8746.html
collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-8127.html
collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-10813.html
and the late 19th century regulation dirk had a blade just under 18".

Second, tapered and pointy is more common, including curved blades, but some are less tapered and pointy:
collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/78518.html

AFAICT from examples, curved dirks are usually shorter than the big straight dirks, commonly 13-15" for the big ones. There are bigger ones, though:
www.militariahub.com/british-c-1850-naval-midshipman-lionshead-hanger-dirk/



I don't know about zero, but a P guard is certainly unusual for a dirk (as already said).

The size is unusual for a curved dirk, but far from impossible. The P guard makes it more likely that this weapon is a shortened sword (which further detail of the blade geometry might confirm). If it isn't a shortened sword, then it might be a naval dirk, possibly with a non-original hilt.

What might I believe? I believe that there were dirks with blades of 19". I believe that there were dirks with curved blades, sometimes over 15" long. I believe that this was identified - quite possibly mis-identified - as a naval sword on the basis of weapons such as those I linked.

The first two points are based on surviving examples, and arguing against hard evidence like that is just plain silly.

The third one is opinion only - I can't telepathically determine why the original seller described it as such.

Quite reasonable to think that this is more likely a shortened sword than a dirk. I think a naval dirk is a possibility (and it could be both a dirk and a shortened sword); you are welcome to believe that it cannot possibly have been a naval dirk.

Sorry, I misunderstood. "Believe what you might" is an unusual way to say "I agree", and I didn't read it that way.

Btw, if the OP gives us some blade thickness info, how thick, and how much taper in thickness, is usual for unfullered US militia swords c. 1810?

Firstly allow me to thank you all for taking the time and trouble to give me all this most interesting information. If nothing else, I have learned that this subject is far, far more complicated than it seems at first appearance!
I have attached some more photographs which show the width of the blade from the hilt to the tip and the back edge also from the hilt to the tip. I hope that helps !

am hoping that someone is able to help me with the identification of a sword. I am have British Naval officer’s sword

Office Royal Navy ol dress sword
N2052

Hope you can help if you know who this belongs to or how we can found out whom it was belong to And any information ion the sword . Thank you all in anticipation!