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Post by bohe on Aug 26, 2019 1:43:18 GMT
hello, i am trying to build a set of lamellar armor that is combat ready but i am unsure on a many things and i hope that many of you will be much more knowledgeable then me.
the first thing is the best size of plate for me, the thing is i have a serious lack of tools so i have to get the steel plates all made at my local steel shop so i would like to keep them as large as possible while reaming flexible to keep cost down
the next thing is what type of lamellar weaving is the best compromise between simplicity and viability(historical accuracy is not insanely importance but is appreciated)
the last thing is simply what is the best gauge of steel i can go with ranging from 16 to 20 gauge in everyone's personal opinion.
thank you very much for reading this and any response is highly appreciated
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Aug 26, 2019 1:49:00 GMT
I know very little about this type of armor, but for 'combat ready' go for at least 16ga.---14ga. would be even better---but heavier.  |
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 26, 2019 2:30:07 GMT
I know very little about this type of armor, but for 'combat ready' go for at least 16ga.---14ga. would be even better---but heavier. The good thing about Lamellar is that it overlaps, so something like 18ga is actually fine But if I had my choice, I would definitely go with heavier |
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Post by bohe on Aug 26, 2019 3:11:27 GMT
so far thank you all for all the posts, i think at this point i will cut in between 18 and 16 and purchase 17ga steel
edit:now i just need to find out about the other things
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Aug 26, 2019 3:20:31 GMT
Big no on the 16ga. Overlap should give you two or more layers of metal at any point so thin plates are sufficient without weighing too much. There are places that sell lamellar plates if that's easier.
What type of combat do you want this for? Aluminium plates could work, boiled leather is tough and light and can be made if you have access to a kitchen.
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Post by bohe on Aug 26, 2019 3:38:12 GMT
to buy lamellar plates locally will cost a fortune sadly, also the combat i am aiming for will be full contact so i am not sure aluminum or leather would cut it but i very well may be wrong
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 26, 2019 6:19:29 GMT
I don't recommend steel lamellar for full-contact. If you go with historical thickness (say, about 0.5mm to 1mm, with about 0.8mm on average), you have something that will dent and crumple. If you go thicker, you get brutal weight due to the overlap. Well, maybe you can find an acceptable compromise between the two. My suggestion: rawhide or imitation rawhide (e.g., leather, plastic). Given a saw, a drill (preferably with a drill press), and something like a belt sander to round edges and corners of your lamellae, you can DIY. Maybe 2mm thick polycarbonate? Whether leather (or plastic, or rawhide) would work depends on the weapon simulators and the rules. Typical sizes range from about 5-10cm long, 1.5-3cm wide. The Effingham plates from www.plasticlamellar.com/ would give a nice Japanese lamellar. |
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Post by bohe on Aug 26, 2019 13:13:04 GMT
thanks for the input Timo, i am not sure if rawhide or leather will work amazingly for what i am going for simply because for my local groups they are very high impact so i am not sure if it will last incredibly long, but i do think you are 100% right with with the inclusion of rawhide, so what if i made a raw hide backing that sits behind the plates much like scale armor?
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 26, 2019 13:33:06 GMT
thanks for the input Timo, i am not sure if rawhide or leather will work amazingly for what i am going for simply because for my local groups they are very high impact so i am not sure if it will last incredibly long, but i do think you are 100% right with with the inclusion of rawhide, so what if i made a raw hide backing that sits behind the plates much like scale armor? I'm not Timo and am far less knowledgeable... But that sounds wicked Rawhide would totally work for full Contact, especially over padding. I made a steel Lamellar pauldron, and I'll attest, it does absorb impact really well. Something like rawhide would be even better But I would totally want rawhide under the steel if I had the option. Weight might be an issue, but it would be wicked for training I would think. Would make you in to an Olympic fencer lol. Especially once you ditched the rawhide in the future |
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Post by demonskull on Aug 26, 2019 13:56:35 GMT
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 26, 2019 14:14:48 GMT
Badass idea. I'm gonna look into this |
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Post by bohe on Aug 26, 2019 14:19:05 GMT
thanks demon skull, i will look into using those for sure but i already sent and email for a qoute from my local metal shop so i may wait for that first before blowing the bank buying a stupid amount of mending plate
also i 100% agree no one
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 26, 2019 14:25:58 GMT
The only downside to using 18ga mild steel is it bends easy. Easy to bend back yes, and Lamellar was meant to be easy to mend, as it did damage in battle, but after repeated bending, the things may snap. So that's something to keep in mind
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Aug 26, 2019 15:03:18 GMT
Lamellar...
I know lots.
I even fight in some. (sca)
So, many regions used it...do you have a particular one in mind?
I also have a ton of spare plates...tombstone stainless and brass.
If it's just for show, you can do about anything.
If you plan to fight in it, I'd recommend aluminum or stainless, as maintenance of mild steel lamellar is akin to mail...somewhere between awful and hilarious.
Cordage...
You can do nylon paracord in a huge number of colors, I've seen folks buy cotton/silk shoe laces, and I've seen leather cord as well.
IMO, nylon doesnt rot and can pass the 10 foot test, but leather seems to work well for folks that use it.
I know I'm forgetting something...
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
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Post by pgandy on Aug 26, 2019 15:48:52 GMT
Assuming Timo is correct at an average of .8 mm that would equate to 22 ga. Remember in all likelihood your plates will be over lapping. If your plates were arced rather than flat it will add strength. At any rate avoid 16 ga for what you want. Christain is thinking plate armour. It is possible to rivet single plates to a cloth/leather backing or even sandwich them between clothe or leather. In that case you will want to go thicker than 22 ga. Carbon Steel Gauge Chart* Gauge Number Inches MM 7 .1793 4.554 8 .1644 4.175 9 .1495 3.797 10 .1345 3.416 11 .1196 3.038 12 .1046 2.656 14 .0747 1.897 16 .0598 1.518 18 .0478 1.214 20 .0359 .911 22 .0299 .759 24 .0239 .607 26 .0179 .454 28 .0149 .378 From www.metalsupermarkets.com/sheet-metal-gauge-chart/ Judging from personal experience it will be cheaper to buy ready made. However the experience of making it yourself is invaluable. You’ll be happier with stainless than carbon steel. Leather should work fine. |
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Post by bohe on Aug 26, 2019 23:42:43 GMT
sir thorfinn, when it comes to regional types of lamellar i am open to suggestions so if you could hit me with your personal opinions as someone who is much more knowledgeable on the subject as me that would be appreciated. pg andy, i am right now looking at getting every piece laser cut at a local steel shop, depending on there quote i may buy them from the closest store to me, the problem for me is that i am not a huge fan of the local styles.
edit: here is the link to my local shops optionshttps://www.medievaldepot.com/search?q=lamellar ( i wont be ordering online becuase i need them soon and some shipping costs are rather high. i am also basing the schematic for each plate off the newcastle plate from plastic lamellar
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Aug 26, 2019 23:59:20 GMT
Bohe what group/type of fighting are you getting in to? Do they have any minimum standards for armour? Last thing you want is to put a lot of time and effort into making armour that you can't use the way you want to.
When I said boiled leather I meant leather soaked in melted beeswax. Cut your plates, punch holes in them, then soak. Time consuming and not exactly cheap because wax can be expensive but needs very little in the way of tools or space.
One thing to consider about maintenance is that if you're fighting full contact your armour will need repairs no matter what it is.
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Post by bohe on Aug 27, 2019 0:25:31 GMT
the group that i am going for is small and lenient on what you are wearing so i am sure leather armor if made properly would be allowed but the work load it may have as a whole may be a bit much for me, but i will look into it more before i make a verdict since the last thing i want is to be ill formed with my choice.
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Post by bohe on Aug 27, 2019 0:27:17 GMT
also one thing i have not looked into is helmets to go with this armor so any recommendations are highly appreciated.
and thank you all so much for every single response so far they have all been a great help
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Aug 27, 2019 13:57:05 GMT
So...suggestions.
Look for pics of viking lamellar in the various reenacting groups.
IMO...you need a torso, at least short tassets, and maybe short pauldrons for the shoulders.
My fist set was hardened leather, and it wore like IRON...on the plus side, I made it in my spare time in an apartment, no complex tools needed. And over all since I bought junk scrap, it was dirt cheap.
I'll PM you a link to one of my favorite sellers of plates...
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