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Post by dobralov on Aug 19, 2019 20:41:55 GMT
Greetings! I'm looking at buying my first, and after reading through the pinned-and-awesome newbie guide, I've settled on the Ronin Dojo Pro. I haven't quite settled on a variant yet, but I'm at the upper end of my comfort level at the $300 price-point. Following is the rationale for my choice. I'm 5'11", have no practical experience, and hope to dabble in backyard cutting and teach my children to do it one day when they're old enough. Not a fan of display models. If you can provide additional insight or options, please do! Or, if there's something you wish you'd known when buying your first katana, let me know! - Bo-hi. I like the idea of it being lighter and the sound produced by a bo-hi blade, at least for my first.
- Thoroughly hardened because it will hold up to my and my children's newbie ways better, and Differentially hardened tends to be unreliable at this price-point
- 1060 Carbon Steel, which is durable, reliable, and not especially brittle.
I considered, but ultimately rejected other candidates like the Ryujin T10 Custom, some Hanwei options, and a few other options with hamons that seemed to imply a slight hit on durability.
Thank you for this wonderful resource, and for taking the time to read words from the new guy!
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 19, 2019 21:19:52 GMT
Hello dobralov, welcome to the forum.
I have a Ronin Dojo, which was the budget TH 1045 steel, no horn on the saya version of the 1060 Dojo Pro and I love it. I did wind up getting the handle rewrapped, as the ito was loose on it from the factory. It's held up well to cutting and such over the years. I also have a S&D Ronin Dojo Pro ko-katana. It's very fun. I haven't put it through any real paces, so I cannot attest to its durability.
Just to touch on some of the points you brought up:
Bo-hi: Unless you plan on cutting very hard or heavy targets, then a bo-hi should not have a huge impact on durability. There's some, but with proper form and not abusing the blade it would be negligible. Not trying to convince you to get one, just to allay some of the concern should you choose to get one.
TH: That's a solid beginner move. TH swords can be a bit more forgiving, so if you are just starting out as a cutter then that's what I'd recommend. At the same time, a lot of negatives you see attributed to DH swords are due to misuse, abuse and poor cutting habits. I've wanged my DH swords off of stands, full on hit the stand, hit the ground and other super cringy accidents with them and didn't suffer any sets and the blade didn't explode like glass on contact. I still think that TH is a good choice for a first cutter for several reasons. 1. They tend to be cheaper. 2. They tend to be more forgiving. 3. The blades tend to be plain, so scuffs and scratches don't bother me as much as on a beautifully polished blade with stunning hamon.
1060: Nothing wrong with some good old 1060, but it will be somewhat more prone to taking a set, dulling and taking edge deformation than a higher carbon steel or an alloy like 9260. This is one of those trade-off games we have to play.
I'd like to offer up two alternatives, which you may or may not already have checked into.
First is the Hanwei Raptor. For durability, this is top notch. It's made from a higher performing steel and has a history of toughness. On the down side, I don't particularly appreciate the fittings, and the tsuka is very fat. I've found that the tsuka shaping on the Ronin's is much better. If you want to take a look, these can be found at Kult of Athena, who usually have the best prices and great customer service.
The second would be the Huawei TH 9260 katana. Very tough, well put together, and comes with some attractive features, all for around $199. It doesn't have horn fittings on the saya, but you can ask for a saya with them for a pretty nominal fee. The only downside is they are a direct from China company, so if you have issues you'd have to go through the rigamarole of sending it all the way back to China, which can be a hassle. If you're willing to take that chance, then this is a very attractive option. You can find these on eBay under the seller 'huaweisword', or at their website huaweiswords.com.
I hope this helps.
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Post by dobralov on Aug 19, 2019 22:06:09 GMT
Thanks for the response, Adrian!
Interesting points, all. Maybe I'll reconsider the bo-hi since I definitely like the quick blade and I'm not planning on "abusing" the blade. Likely cuts through water bottles, watermelon, and maybe some bamboo if I get my hands on some, which seems like it would be fine. And what's your preference for bo-hi versus no bo-hi?
I'm especially curious about using higher carbon steel since I'm meticulous about form and I'd prefer something that holds an edge. I'm having trouble finding the sword you describe at huaweswords.com, do you happen to have a link handy?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 19, 2019 22:30:10 GMT
I personally favor a lighter, more agile sword. However, I'm not a serious cutter, so if I was then perhaps I'd drift more toward stouter swords. I'd classify my cutting as mostly light-to-medium. Mostly bottles of assorted size, plastic type and wall thickness. I used to fill them with water, but after a while I liked the slightly higher challenge of cutting empty bottles. This depends much more on edge keenness, alignment and speed. There are some solid body swords that do just fine, like the Hanwei Practical line, as they are fairly light and maneuverable. So it's less a bo-hi or no-hi thing for me as weight and center of balance. Bo-hi do tend to be closer to what I want, though. Things like bamboo can cause a blade to take a set, as depending on type, thickness and dryness they can be tough and unforgiving of poor edge alignment. Here's a link to the Huawei. www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Forged-Oil-Quenched-TH-Shinogi-Zukuri-Bohi-Hishi-Gami-Shinken-Mat-Cutter/272941911176?hash=item3f8c9b0c88:g:lRkAAOSwZqZaEBt4
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Post by dobralov on Aug 19, 2019 22:50:17 GMT
Thank you, that's beautiful! So that Huawai is 9260 Spring Steel that holds an edge better than 1060, but is a little more "brittle" with sloppy use, is that correct? I also don't see a hamon, which is good for me if I have to worry about scuffs and whatnot (if that's a thing?)
As for "taking a chance" on Huawei and China, I know their rep is solid if they're being recommended on this site, so I can cope with the potential inconvenience.
I doubt I'll ever rank as a "serious cutter," I'm just a suburban dad that also plays with lightsabers, heh. The "bottle test" of your swing seems like a good, low-risk way of evaluating your form, as well. Gotta be careful with bamboo, it would seem!
Thanks again for all of your help, Adrian!
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 19, 2019 23:52:23 GMT
No, not particularly. If tempered and heat treated well, and Huawei's seems to be pretty good on these, 9260 is basically better than 1060 in most every way. Edge holding, flexibility, and durability should all be better.
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Post by dobralov on Aug 20, 2019 15:07:04 GMT
No, not particularly. If tempered and heat treated well, and Huawei's seems to be pretty good on these, 9260 is basically better than 1060 in most every way. Edge holding, flexibility, and durability should all be better. Well, that would seem to settle it then, unless you have any other suggestions at the 2-300 range for bo-hi swords with an emphasis on holding a keen edge Asked Huawei about the horn fittings yesterday, have yet to hear back but hopefully soon
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Post by maewyn on Aug 20, 2019 15:20:34 GMT
Second on the Raptors and Huawei 9260,much better options for you imho for toughness. Dont forget the Dynasty Forge Musha series,also a better option imo.
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Post by dobralov on Aug 20, 2019 16:22:13 GMT
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Post by dobralov on Aug 20, 2019 18:11:27 GMT
Not a bo-hi fan, I take it?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 20, 2019 18:53:22 GMT
That one has a shobu zukuri geometry, rather than the shinogi zukuri geometry that the other one has. Shinogi zukuri has a ridgeline, called a shinogi, that runs down the blade that transitions the flat portion of the blade to the long cutting bevel. Near the tip, you'll have a vertical line of delineation, called a yokote. From the yokote to the tip is called the kissaki. With a shobu, the shinogi ridge is generally placed higher, nearer the spine. Also, it has no yokote. Since the shinogi is so high on the blade, a bo-hi is a very rare thing to see on them. I've actually only ever seen one katana with shobu zukuri and a bo-hi, and that was an intentionally ordered custom. Modern swords with a shobu zukuri geometry sometimes tend to be a bit heavier. They make good cutters, and the uninterrupted lines are very attractive to some collectors.
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Post by maewyn on Aug 20, 2019 20:15:04 GMT
At Kult of Athena,not the site you showed,costs less at KoA
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Post by maewyn on Aug 20, 2019 20:19:18 GMT
Dont go to the brands sites,they always cost more.Ho to a secondary sales site like KoA,LGMartialArts,Swordnarmory,etc. DF is a well regarded company in several different places,the Musha series is known for its toughness.
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Post by dobralov on Aug 20, 2019 23:15:10 GMT
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Post by dobralov on Aug 22, 2019 12:26:37 GMT
So I've sent two messages to Huawei, one via eBay 4 days ago and other through their website 2 days ago. They have not responded. (EDIT: They just did and indicated they're on vacation). Still considering alternatives. I liked 9260, but KoA doesn't have much to offer. Budget is $300, mostly for backyard cutting, and thinking 9260 (or comparable), bo-hi, and thoroughly hardened. Found this: sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/Tenchi.html .
Please chime in about options and about the above sword, if possible. Thank you!
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Post by maewyn on Aug 22, 2019 16:37:47 GMT
A good option,10+ years ago. Non alternating tsukamaki,those ugly cheap cut seppa,etc.They havent kept up with the market and havent really been a value for a very long time.And the fact that they added a disclaimer to their site due to so many swords being sent out dull,now they dont replace them when a customer complains about the edge.
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Post by skane on Aug 22, 2019 16:51:44 GMT
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Post by maewyn on Aug 22, 2019 17:05:44 GMT
What Skane said.
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Post by dobralov on Aug 22, 2019 17:10:17 GMT
Dodging bullets thanks to you guys, appreciated. I'll wait out the Huawei vacation and your knowledgeable endorsements mean a lot, thanks! !
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Post by skane on Aug 22, 2019 18:05:59 GMT
Dodging bullets thanks to you guys, appreciated. I'll wait out the Huawei vacation and your knowledgeable endorsements mean a lot, thanks! ! For people starting in cutting, imo it's best to go with a TH blade with a good reputation. TH swords recommended in this thread, like DF Musha, Hanwei Raptor, Huawei 9260, and Munetoshi 1060 and 1075 models are some of the best blades for the ~ $300 and under price point imo/ime. It's just a matter of preference in that pool of choices to get something good for the money. Hanwei Practicals are DH and are more prone to bends/sets with bad cuts compared to good TH blades; although many dojos still recommend them for new students.
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