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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 17, 2019 5:47:11 GMT
I'm currently hitting some road bumps learning Hungarian sabre. Basically, I've been doing Polish sabre for long enough that all my muscle memories and reaction times are hard wired to use the Polish parries and ripostes.
So even though I'm drilling the Hungarian system, when it comes to sparring, I keep reverting to what I'm comfortable with rather than applying the new stuff. Has anyone else experienced this? Did anything help?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 17, 2019 14:40:35 GMT
I had something similar happen when I was learning rapier. You just have to drill it in and really concentrate on what you're doing and how you're doing it when you spar, similar to checking how calm you are when you're sparring to make sure you don't let excitedness or adrenaline take over.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Aug 17, 2019 18:11:50 GMT
Pretty much what Jordan said. You have to very mindfully drill the new movements until they essentially re-write your muscle memory. It's very important to be deliberate, or you might unconsciously reinforce your existing instincts.
Interestingly, I'm interested in working in the opposite direction. I grew up learning Hungarian sabre from my father (who learned it in college at Texas A&M), and I'm very interested in learning Polish sabre.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 17, 2019 20:32:45 GMT
Pretty much what Jordan said. You have to very mindfully drill the new movements until they essentially re-write your muscle memory. It's very important to be deliberate, or you might unconsciously reinforce your existing instincts. Interestingly, I'm interested in working in the opposite direction. I grew up learning Hungarian sabre from my father (who learned it in college at Texas A&M), and I'm very interested in learning Polish sabre. Was the Hungarian sabre you learned the 19th century military sabre, or the earlier cross hilted hussar stuff?
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Aug 17, 2019 21:17:41 GMT
Pretty much what Jordan said. You have to very mindfully drill the new movements until they essentially re-write your muscle memory. It's very important to be deliberate, or you might unconsciously reinforce your existing instincts. Interestingly, I'm interested in working in the opposite direction. I grew up learning Hungarian sabre from my father (who learned it in college at Texas A&M), and I'm very interested in learning Polish sabre. Was the Hungarian sabre you learned the 19th century military sabre, or the earlier cross hilted hussar stuff? It was the later military sabre style.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 17, 2019 21:31:30 GMT
Was the Hungarian sabre you learned the 19th century military sabre, or the earlier cross hilted hussar stuff? It was the later military sabre style. Gotcha, im doing the earlier, very bizarre Hungarian style. Which basically ditches 90% of traditional military sabre. Your background in military sabre will be very helpful for learning Polish sabre on the other hand. Basically just mix in some German dussack and adjust your grip.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Aug 17, 2019 23:13:20 GMT
It was the later military sabre style. Gotcha, im doing the earlier, very bizarre Hungarian style. Which basically ditches 90% of traditional military sabre. Your background in military sabre will be very helpful for learning Polish sabre on the other hand. Basically just mix in some German dussack and adjust your grip. I'd be very interested in any videos you might do on what you are learning now.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 18, 2019 3:08:05 GMT
Gotcha, im doing the earlier, very bizarre Hungarian style. Which basically ditches 90% of traditional military sabre. Your background in military sabre will be very helpful for learning Polish sabre on the other hand. Basically just mix in some German dussack and adjust your grip. I'd be very interested in any videos you might do on what you are learning now. Good to know, ill try and do one in the near future.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 18, 2019 19:14:10 GMT
Gotcha, im doing the earlier, very bizarre Hungarian style. Which basically ditches 90% of traditional military sabre. Your background in military sabre will be very helpful for learning Polish sabre on the other hand. Basically just mix in some German dussack and adjust your grip. I'd be very interested in any videos you might do on what you are learning now.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Aug 18, 2019 20:28:20 GMT
I'd be very interested in any videos you might do on what you are learning now.
Awesome, thanks for posting.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Aug 19, 2019 2:40:01 GMT
I'd be very interested in any videos you might do on what you are learning now. Thank you. That was very interesting. At first I was kind of gobsmacked, but the reasoning seems sound, especially with regards to heavier blades, and more curved sabres. Please share more, if you have the time and inclination.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 19, 2019 12:28:49 GMT
Thank you. That was very interesting. At first I was kind of gobsmacked, but the reasoning seems sound, especially with regards to heavier blades, and more curved sabres. Please share more, if you have the time and inclination. I had much the same reaction during my first exposure. Besides the differences I've already mentioned, the system also uses binds, thrusts, and false edge work far more than other sabre systems.
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Post by Cosmoline on Aug 19, 2019 17:51:43 GMT
For me, I have to start with my familiar territory and then add to it. So for Chinese or Fiore I will take the closest form from Liechtenauer or I.33 and then add to it. "It's ochs but with XYZ change" or something like that. Then after drilling awhile I no longer need the training wheel.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 20, 2019 12:26:25 GMT
Update: I spoke with my rapier coach about this since he also happened to be a personal trainer. He had some interesting advice I'm gonna try out.
Basically, he said slowly practicing a move doesn't build muscle memory to preform it at high speed under duress. Instead, I have to practice tt as fast and as intense as possible. He recommended picking a move, then doing it as fast as possible for 20 seconds, then take a break and repeat.
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Post by Cosmoline on Aug 20, 2019 18:24:49 GMT
I haven't had much luck solo drilling at high speed. The form suffers too much. But doing it faster and faster with a partner, once you know the sequence, is helpful to me.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 22, 2019 21:34:26 GMT
I find going slow isn't too bad for exercise if you keep all your muscles flexed the entire time. I don't mind starting this way cause it let's me know if my movements will hit anything around my and allows me to memorize the arc of my movements.
After I know that they won't hit anything, and that I have enough space to practice full speed, then I tend to up the speed of my practice, repeating the movement over and over till I can see what I am doing incorrectly
I practice indoors in a small place, so that has a huge influence on how I practice, so my word isn't worth much. For these reasons I tend to stick to push cuts and draw cuts, as the huge arcs usually seen in HEMA just aren't possible in my apartment
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 23, 2019 19:37:48 GMT
Update: I spoke with my rapier coach about this since he also happened to be a personal trainer. He had some interesting advice I'm gonna try out. Basically, he said slowly practicing a move doesn't build muscle memory to preform it at high speed under duress. Instead, I have to practice tt as fast and as intense as possible. He recommended picking a move, then doing it as fast as possible for 20 seconds, then take a break and repeat. I would advise medium speed first. I usually when learning a new technique think of every movement as a separate disjointed piece of a puzzle. Once I finish putting those pieces together, I drill it quicker and focus on it during sparring. For example a lunge with extension I learned as; extend arm -> reach arm extension -> begin leg extension -> complete leg extension. If I did it too fast at first I would end up throwing my leg out first. I don't really understand the fast as possible for 20 seconds. Focused sparring after focused drilling makes more sense to me, but I'm certainly not a personal trainer. It seems like you would ingrain mistakes into your form. Good exercise though. Everyone learns differently though. I learn diddly damn squat in a lecture when it has to do with numbers for example.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 24, 2019 0:12:36 GMT
Update: I spoke with my rapier coach about this since he also happened to be a personal trainer. He had some interesting advice I'm gonna try out. Basically, he said slowly practicing a move doesn't build muscle memory to preform it at high speed under duress. Instead, I have to practice tt as fast and as intense as possible. He recommended picking a move, then doing it as fast as possible for 20 seconds, then take a break and repeat. I would advise medium speed first. I usually when learning a new technique think of every movement as a separate disjointed piece of a puzzle. Once I finish putting those pieces together, I drill it quicker and focus on it during sparring. For example a lunge with extension I learned as; extend arm -> reach arm extension -> begin leg extension -> complete leg extension. If I did it too fast at first I would end up throwing my leg out first. I don't really understand the fast as possible for 20 seconds. Focused sparring after focused drilling makes more sense to me, but I'm certainly not a personal trainer. It seems like you would ingrain mistakes into your form. Good exercise though. Everyone learns differently though. I learn diddly damn squat in a lecture when it has to do with numbers for example. Yeah, Im figuring out the technique slow first, but then getting down the movement with the speed drill. The way he explained it, is if you practice a lunge slow and precise 10k times at home, that when you go to fence for real, you will do it in much the same speed and matter. It's better, once you've figured out the movement, to drill it into you head and muscles to do it as explosivley as you want to for the real deal.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 24, 2019 0:13:36 GMT
Thank you. That was very interesting. At first I was kind of gobsmacked, but the reasoning seems sound, especially with regards to heavier blades, and more curved sabres. Please share more, if you have the time and inclination.
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