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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 13:06:59 GMT
Social Theory 101
Start with a cage containing five apes.
In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray ALL of the apes with cold water. After a while, another ape makes an attempt, with the same result -- once again, all the apes are sprayed with cold water. This continues through several more attempts.
Pretty soon, when another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes try to prevent it. Now, turn off the cold water. Remove one ape from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.
Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest ape.
After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? Because "that's the way they've always done it, and that's the way it's always been."
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Bananas
Aug 4, 2019 13:19:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by MOK on Aug 4, 2019 13:19:15 GMT
Well, assuming perfectly spherical apes in vacuum...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 13:26:42 GMT
Look at it as an example (or opportunity) of leadership.
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Post by MatthewGMK on Aug 4, 2019 18:14:43 GMT
Same result with humans.
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Post by howler on Aug 4, 2019 18:39:33 GMT
This experiment was performed in Escape From The Planet Of The Apes...minus a couple apes, cold water, and of course, the addition of genetically mutated future simians. On a serious note, this does show that negative societal behavior, just like positive, can be passed on, and that the origins of the behavior can be murky.
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Post by MOK on Aug 4, 2019 19:15:26 GMT
To be fair to the poor apes, if a certain behavior consistently hurts others in your group, it's quite rational and justified for the group to discourage or prevent it! The apes in this case are unreasonable only because the scenario is entirely artificial and deliberately set up to make them so (apparently to make an as such valid point about unthinking subservience to tradition).
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Post by MOK on Aug 4, 2019 19:18:34 GMT
Humans are a subset of apes, so that's not even saying much.
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Post by MatthewGMK on Aug 4, 2019 19:21:50 GMT
Humans are a subset of apes, so that's not even saying much. :) Totally agree.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 19:22:27 GMT
The above example is fictional but the Escape from the Planet of the Apes examinations of Zira (and Cornelius) were indeed part of Wolfgang Köhler's research of the 1920s.
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Post by howler on Aug 5, 2019 2:00:56 GMT
The above example is fictional but the Escape from the Planet of the Apes examinations of Zira (and Cornelius) were indeed part of Wolfgang Köhler's research of the 1920s. Ah, interesting, and explains the usage, as the director or screen writers must have incorporated the study into the scene. The Rod Serling 1968 original is just a towering achievement on so many levels. "Human see, human do" is a phrase from the original film that best fits the topic, but you could have a veritable field day with all the one liners and utterances from a movie that tackled so many various issues of the time.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 5, 2019 4:29:35 GMT
And now make a similar thought experiment with five forumists and an Albion sword. Which species would you say shows more intelligence?
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Post by wlewisiii on Aug 5, 2019 5:12:59 GMT
And now make a similar thought experiment with five forumists and an Albion sword. Which species would you say shows more intelligence? Pan paniscus. aka "make love, not war"
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 5, 2019 6:01:50 GMT
And now make a similar thought experiment with five forumists and an Albion sword. Which species would you say shows more intelligence? The one which survives, of course
But that's adaptability. Intelligence, as a heritable trait has appreciable but only moderate genetic components. Therefore, situational factors and social environments are crucial to molding intelligence. Then again, what is intelligence? G is an arbitrary measure in most respects and Stanford-Binet is a gross approximation of responsivity to novel stimuli. Gardner got too trendy, Piaget got too popular and now everyone preaches Vygotsky. Meanwhile the crucial question of the operational definition of intelligence remains elusive. Therefore in the social context, a level of intellect may be espoused in the developmental framing espoused by Bronfenbrenner, to which circumstantial and influential spheres concordantly influence the molding of a fluid mind. To what end? Why, to the end desired by the social parameter. In such a situation, the proximal and distal cues interact, manifesting in the individual's paradigmatic framing. To such an evolved characteristic, the more intelligent is the one which maximizes the actualization within the parameters defined by the ordinal categorization of ends and means. Anathema to the continuism espoused by the humanist, and perhaps blindsided by the situational factors which distort the perceptual data of a given problem. To speak nothing of simple group polarization and interactivity, of course.
Bananas, indeed
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 5, 2019 6:21:49 GMT
The real question is how to prevent the Albion from rusting despite it gets water sprayed on every 3 minutes for a time period of let's say at least 10 years?
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 5, 2019 6:26:08 GMT
The real question is how to prevent the Albion from rusting despite it gets water sprayed on every 3 minutes for a time period of let's say at least 10 years? Perhaps call it oxidation rather than rust? Yes...if we callsss it different, it isssses different, preciousssss, no rustys, no it doesn'tses
Oh dear, I need to shut up now
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Post by MOK on Aug 5, 2019 6:33:46 GMT
The real question is how to prevent the Albion from rusting despite it gets water sprayed on every 3 minutes for a time period of let's say at least 10 years? Step 1: get rid of the jerk with the hose.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 5, 2019 6:44:57 GMT
That's step 2! Step 1 is getting the Albion to get rid of the jerk with the hose. That's the reason why the apes never had a chance!
(I think I just got an idea for a new "Which sword..." thread!)
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 5, 2019 7:05:04 GMT
That's step 2! Step 1 is getting the Albion to get rid of the jerk with the hose. That's the reason why the apes never had a chance! (I think I just got an idea for a new "Which sword..." thread!) Chasing off the jerk in pantyhose?
I think I primed MOK with 'precious' on that front
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