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Post by Jordan Williams on May 25, 2019 6:11:48 GMT
The georgians also used cross hilted pallasch and sabres with a buckler. Cross hilted swords are just usually meant to be used with an off hand item. Even if that is reins or a hussars pistol But these swords have different pommel and hilt designs as well that are far easier to use in a dedicated one hand weapon system than the wheel and fishtail pommels, speaking from my own expeience.
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 1:05:38 GMT
So what would you say the ideal sword for me be? I've narrowed it down to three options:
1. Hand-and-a-half sword (35 inch blade)
2. Arming sword.
3. Saber.
I want to focus on fighting fast offensively, and like freedom of movement. Want to carry it alone as well and nothing else (no buckler or shield). Everyone here has posted great arguments for each. (I know for the arming sword it was also meant to be used with a shield, but if anything the karabela was used by itself and the shashka, so there would definitely be its own art rediscovered).
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Post by Jordan Williams on May 26, 2019 1:28:03 GMT
The karabela and shashka are also totally different swords than the arming sword. That big pommel makes a huge amount of difference in sparring.
Ease of movement - delete the bastard sword if you plan on having ease of movement and not being restricted by having a compromise design.
I vote sabre, or sabre and buckler/dagger.
There are a ton of manuals for using the sabre alone and it's easy to use adapt an off hand to these systems.
The shashka is an outlier, and wasn't it primarily for cavalry?
The karabela iirc was a noblemans weapon.
The cross hilted tulwar is an example of a sword design with a simple hilt, and we have knowledge that it was meant to be used alongside a buckler called a dhal.
Do we actually know for certain the karabela was used alone? I don't know of any manuals for it but I do know that the close cousins in Georgia still have their simple hilted sabre and sword and buckler system. Mike Cherba I believe has been working on an English translation.
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Post by Jordan Williams on May 26, 2019 1:33:35 GMT
Important to remember the sabre, in the span of only the 19th century went against shield and spear, bayonet, sword and buckler (in the Indian subcontinent) and most native weapons from Asia that were being used and we have accounts of this.
In the end the biggest decider is what weapon you can become skilled with. For example I love the sabre but am far more skilled with a rapier and dagger. Which is actually what I reccomend.
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 1:46:30 GMT
The karabela and shashka are also totally different swords than the arming sword. That big pommel makes a huge amount of difference in sparring. Ease of movement - delete the bastard sword if you plan on having ease of movement and not being restricted by having a compromise design. I vote sabre, or sabre and buckler/dagger. There are a ton of manuals for using the sabre alone and it's easy to use adapt an off hand to these systems. The shashka is an outlier, and wasn't it primarily for cavalry? The karabela iirc was a noblemans weapon. The cross hilted tulwar is an example of a sword design with a simple hilt, and we have knowledge that it was meant to be used alongside a buckler called a dhal. Do we actually know for certain the karabela was used alone? I don't know of any manuals for it but I do know that the close cousins in Georgia still have their simple hilted sabre and sword and buckler system. Mike Cherba I believe has been working on an English translation. karabela were noblemens weapons. They were used like other szablas, alone or with round shields, although I think they were less optimized than other sabers and focused more on looks than function.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 26, 2019 1:56:08 GMT
Of the ones you listed sabre. I have an Agincourt that handles well with one or two hands and will give you freedom of movement but without a shield the sabre for better hand protection and they work well. I say sabre assuming you have room to swing it. Keep in mind most sabres were designed to be used on horse not on foot. I have limited space and would modify sabre to read cutlass, they work much the same. I find my cutlass faster and less tiring than a sabre. Jordan’s suggestion of rapier is a good one.
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 1:56:41 GMT
So what would you say the ideal sword for me be? I've narrowed it down to three options: 1. Hand-and-a-half sword (35 inch blade) 2. Arming sword. 3. Saber. I want to focus on fighting fast offensively, and like freedom of movement. Want to carry it alone as well and nothing else (no buckler or shield). Everyone here has posted great arguments for each. (I know for the arming sword it was also meant to be used with a shield, but if anything the karabela was used by itself and the shashka, so there would definitely be its own art rediscovered). Shashkas are wonky. I really like them, but no guard means that you can only use deflection parries which severely limits your options. Also please bare in mind, we only have shashka manuals from late 19th century Russia, when sword usage in war had plummeted and the manuals just show them being used like a military saber. My very strong feeling, is that they used to have their own system, but it got watered down overtime as the importance of swords in modern militarys did the same. So that leaves us in a place where we dont know how shashkas were truly used. There is a ton of BS reinterpretations on youtube so be careful not to get suckered in. This guy is pretty cool though.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 26, 2019 2:17:55 GMT
I hear many people in their reviews and comments complain that their swords are lose in the scabbards, thinking the sword/scabbard should be securely together. Personal preference I suppose I like mine lose as they draw better. I never had one fall out, but then I don’t stand on my head. Note the man in white.
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 2:24:03 GMT
Can arming sword alone be used like a saber or no?
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 2:25:27 GMT
Can arming sword alone be used like a saber or no? sooooooort of? I mean, I could use a zweihander like a saber if I really really wanted to. The problem is you throw any historical context and existing treatise out the window in the process.
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 2:40:10 GMT
Can arming sword alone be used like a saber or no? sooooooort of? I mean, I could use a zweihander like a saber if I really really wanted to. The problem is you throw any historical context and existing treatise out the window in the process. On a different note I know in a lot of games you use a single handed medieval sword by itself, like Assassin's Creed.
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 2:45:05 GMT
sooooooort of? I mean, I could use a zweihander like a saber if I really really wanted to. The problem is you throw any historical context and existing treatise out the window in the process. On a different note I know in a lot of games you use a single handed medieval sword by itself, like Assassin's Creed. Well that's also a game where you can survive a 15 story fall if you aim for the bail of hay
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 26, 2019 2:57:43 GMT
A game??? Oh man……
I had to come back to say video games remind me of whale sh*t and that’s at the bottom to the ocean. But that’s just my opinion.
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 3:05:40 GMT
A game??? Oh man…… I had to come back to say video games remind me of whale sh*t and that’s at the bottom to the ocean. But that’s just my opinion. While I wouldn't be that dismissive of the whole medium, I agree 99% of the time anything you see sword related in a game is BS. Then again, the same is true for TV and film!
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 3:07:37 GMT
A game??? Oh man…… I had to come back to say video games remind me of whale sh*t and that’s at the bottom to the ocean. But that’s just my opinion. While I wouldn't be that dismissive of the whole medium, I agree 99% of the time anything you see sword related in a game is BS. Then again, the same is true for TV and film! Would a polish saber be good if we are talking about saber usage?
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 3:17:36 GMT
While I wouldn't be that dismissive of the whole medium, I agree 99% of the time anything you see sword related in a game is BS. Then again, the same is true for TV and film! Would a polish saber be good if we are talking about saber usage? You're asking a very biased source lol. I absolutely adore Polish saber, however I think it's only fair to tell you its big problem: no treatises. Most of what we use to learn Polish saber is reconstruction based on messer, kilij, dussac, and early military saber. Throw in a little frog DNA and presto! Polish saber. Another problem is few available options. Really only Cold Steel and Del Tin make replicas, with Del Tin being the far superior of the two if you like the cross guard and massive yelman (not my taste).
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 3:30:27 GMT
Would a polish saber be good if we are talking about saber usage? You're asking a very biased source lol. I absolutely adore Polish saber, however I think it's only fair to tell you its big problem: no treatises. Most of what we use to learn Polish saber is reconstruction based on messer, kilij, dussac, and early military saber. Throw in a little frog DNA and presto! Polish saber. Another problem is few available options. Really only Cold Steel and Del Tin make replicas, with Del Tin being the far superior of the two if you like the cross guard and massive yelman (not my taste). I think that's a strength of polish saber. My current issue with the way training is done in HEMA is that rather than using the treatises as good way to check if you are doing it correctly, they just copy it. If you want to learn how to fence, and I mean really fence as they did back then, you gotta learn the old fashioned way. You have to allow yourself to get hurt to get the proper reactions ingrained.
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 3:30:48 GMT
I have the Polish Saber by Richard Marsden, and I think it's a fantastic book.
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 26, 2019 3:34:01 GMT
I have the Polish Saber by Richard Marsden, and I think it's a fantastic book. Oh perfect! That's the one I'd recommend anyway. Yeah honestly if you love that book, then I'd say Polish saber is for you.
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Post by schnitzelsandwich on May 26, 2019 3:41:01 GMT
I have the Polish Saber by Richard Marsden, and I think it's a fantastic book. Oh perfect! That's the one I'd recommend anyway. Yeah honestly if you love that book, then I'd say Polish saber is for you. What do you think of this video: vs. this: Doesn't seem too different. I could be wrong though.
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