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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 10, 2019 0:46:23 GMT
Hey all,
Since the Kingston Arms sidesword oversold on KoA and I didn't get to nab one, I've been looking into alternatives to practice sidesword techniques with. The Hanwei Cromwell caught my eye, but I'm not sure how well sidesword techniques translate to a baskethilt with a blade design such as this. Thoughts?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 10, 2019 1:07:40 GMT
The balance is fine for a sidesword (i.e., pivot point near the tip). It's perhaps heavy for a sidesword (the original collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-185.html at 1077g, would be a good weight, but the Hanwei is are heavier). Don't know if the basket might get in the way. Another option for a sidesword-balanced sword is a jian - a good jian will balance like a sidesword. The Hanwei Chinese Cutting Sword and the Cost Steel Gim both have balance like this, and could be good lighter alternatives to the Cromwell. (Maybe the Hanwei sparring jian would be good, if you want something blunt.)
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Apr 10, 2019 1:09:36 GMT
You could but the Cromwell, doesn't have a ricasso to wrap your index finger around. Plus the basket makes it impossible to do that anyways. A schiavona, would be the best basket hilt sword for doing sidesword techniques because it does have a ricasso.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Apr 10, 2019 1:59:20 GMT
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 10, 2019 3:08:41 GMT
Thanks for your input guys. The Cromwell has an attractive design, but as mentioned, at right under 3 lbs it is a little bit on the heavy side. No finger-able ricasso is also a knock against it. It does have a very nice design though, and I do like the thought of a basket hilt for hand protection. Like you mentioned though, Timo, to what extent the basket may interfere requires some thought. Another question about the Cromwell: what sort of grips can you employ with the grip given its size? Is a handshake grip comfortable or even possible with a grip this style? I'm a fan of jian and I do like my CS gim quite a bit. That being the case, I wish it had a bit more "oomph" (to phrase it colorfully) and a ricasso. I have considered blunting the base, as we've discussed before, but I'm partial to the idea of finding an alternative sword. I'm also a fan of rapier and enjoy practicing with them, however they're a bit long and narrow for my intended field of study which encourages something with the dimensions of a sidesword. I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider purchasing one of Del Tin's sidesword or cut n thrust models. Any thoughts on the options from Del Tin, such as these: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT7160kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT5169At first glance to me, while on point as far as design/style goes, the weight stats are arguably a bit heavy, with the longer bladed early rapier with its further out p.o.b. perhaps more cumbersome than the Cromwell. Not totally sold on either. Other suggestions are always appreciated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 5:36:25 GMT
The DT5160 a classic
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Apr 10, 2019 5:40:10 GMT
How high in price are you willing to go? I've had an Arms & Armor Cavalier "Rapier" for a long time and love it beyond words to express.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 10, 2019 14:48:34 GMT
In the same ball park as the Arms & Armor recommendation above, I can vouch for the quality of the Albion type XIXs (I have one of their Doges).
Edit: On the matter of the Hanwei Cromwell, my brother has one. It is an attractive sword, but he and I have rather large hands (glove size 11/XL) and the Cromwell's basket is a bit small for us. We have never cut with it, so I don't know how well it would measure up in that regard.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Apr 10, 2019 15:01:23 GMT
And don't get me wrong, I've nothing against the Cromwell. Ive handled them and in fact if I weren't trying to put limits on my collection I'd gladly have one. But in handling and expectation I'd suggest expecting and treating it more like a nimble baskethilt than a sidesword.
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 10, 2019 20:19:34 GMT
I can see why. I think this one might be the winner. Thanks for introducing us.
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 10, 2019 20:20:24 GMT
And don't get me wrong, I've nothing against the Cromwell. Ive handled them and in fact if I weren't trying to put limits on my collection I'd gladly have one. But in handling and expectation I'd suggest expecting and treating it more like a nimble baskethilt than a sidesword. Thanks for the input on how it would handle; I think I'll take a pass on the Cromwell and just look for something that truly is a dedicated sidesword/early rapier.
Same to you, Zen_Hydra . It's good to know the grip is a little tight, especially if you like to spread out your fingers when you grip a sword. (handshake/sword claw style grips)
Both A&A and Del Tin seem to be hitting the mark for good designs; the Cavalier 'rapier' looks sublime, but that DT 5160 Edelweiss suggested is just elegantly simple. I'll have to research these more.
Budget wise, at this point I'm comfortable spending anywhere across the price range for something if it's worth saving up for. I'd say upper limit is the A&A range, I'd prefer something under $1,000, and the Del Tin rates are the most appealing. It'll be a bit before I nab a sidesword anyways since I finally found a good starting sabre, so sabre shenanigans will be up for study first and I'll be looking at sidesword more seriously later in the year.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 10, 2019 21:30:39 GMT
Another question about the Cromwell: what sort of grips can you employ with the grip given its size? Is a handshake grip comfortable or even possible with a grip this style? The side-bar of the basket stops a handshake grip. The grip would be long enough (just) for a handshake grip for average hands without that side bar. So you're restricted to hammer grip and halfway between hammer and handshake. You'd cut in hammer grip, and you could shift to an angled hammer grip for thrusting. I like the size of the basket a lot - it's compact, and there is little extra space between my hand and the basket (but there is space, so my hand fits). Much better than giant baskets.
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 10, 2019 21:46:42 GMT
Another question about the Cromwell: what sort of grips can you employ with the grip given its size? Is a handshake grip comfortable or even possible with a grip this style? The side-bar of the basket stops a handshake grip. The grip would be long enough (just) for a handshake grip for average hands without that side bar. So you're restricted to hammer grip and halfway between hammer and handshake. You'd cut in hammer grip, and you could shift to an angled hammer grip for thrusting. I like the size of the basket a lot - it's compact, and there is little extra space between my hand and the basket (but there is space, so my hand fits). Much better than giant baskets. Thanks for your input, as always, Timo. Seems like this might be one I check out at a later time for curiosity and look into a proper sidesword first. It's a super stylish piece though, and it seems like everyone who has one loves it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 3:36:43 GMT
The Oakeshott Espada Ropera I had a Windlass and someone wanted it off the rack at a show. It was in the late 1990s catalogs. I had bought it instead of the 5160. due to costs and a scabbard. A truly good effort from them. I bought a one off a few years ago that had a better training type blade but not as sexy. Some have called the 5160 doggy. The sword appears in a few Oakeshott titles
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 4:09:15 GMT
As to the Hanwei mort, I can get my hand in there and I am a US size 12 plus glove size.
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