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Post by airborne on Mar 30, 2019 21:13:31 GMT
I AM NOW TOTALLY CONFUSED . Does that mean that as I live in the UK , I can still make a custom order with any of the Chinese companies or indeed SBG without having any worries about having it confiscated by UK customs ?
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Mar 30, 2019 21:45:51 GMT
I AM NOW TOTALLY CONFUSED . Does that mean that as I live in the UK , I can still make a custom order with any of the Chinese companies or indeed SBG without having any worries about having it confiscated by UK customs ? Probably the best thing to do would be contact UK customs and ask if you can import what you're after.
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Post by airborne on Mar 30, 2019 22:05:00 GMT
Hey Scott , I started to go down that route but they don't make it easy and to be honest some of them people are so up themselves it gets you frustrated .
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Post by MOK on Mar 30, 2019 22:55:16 GMT
Yeah, customs officials are notoriously ornery beasts the whole world over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 23:36:18 GMT
Gents, it HAS to be a USPS thing - why else would KOA still ship swords to Europe via UPS? Knife Center via FedEx? Sword'n Armoury via FedEx?
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Post by dc on Mar 31, 2019 1:47:26 GMT
Gents, it HAS to be a USPS thing - why else would KOA still ship swords to Europe via UPS? Knife Center via FedEx? Sword'n Armoury via FedEx? It might not be USPS themselves, but the national post offices USPS are handing the package off to - perhaps something like a legal requirement for an adult signature on delivery of swords that those local post offices aren't willing to guarantee but UPS, FedEx, etc. are? That would explain the shipments getting rejected in the destination country instead of in the US. It would also explain why some countries are affected and not others - regulations and the services provided by the national post office both vary from country to country.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 6:50:46 GMT
Gents, it HAS to be a USPS thing - why else would KOA still ship swords to Europe via UPS? Knife Center via FedEx? Sword'n Armoury via FedEx? It might not be USPS themselves, but the national post offices USPS are handing the package off to - perhaps something like a legal requirement for an adult signature on delivery of swords that those local post offices aren't willing to guarantee but UPS, FedEx, etc. are? That would explain the shipments getting rejected in the destination country instead of in the US. It would also explain why some countries are affected and not others - regulations and the services provided by the national post office both vary from country to country. Exactly. "from country to country". Theres is no way EU could control/influence that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 6:50:56 GMT
I had a conference call with a USPS export supervisor in Chicago (where EU and Canadian bound packages depart the US) and my import agency this morning and was told that the following terms were updated as no go for air freight; sword, martial arts equipment, and historical replica. The suggested fix is sporting goods. USPS enforces package restrictions provided by countries and zones. I can confirm the following country changes through package rejection Ronin has had recently; Bulgaria, Sweden, Switzerland, Portugal, France, and Spain. We have had seven come back with four pending and probable returns. Countries that have had no problems; UK (required more documentation from Ronin to exit customs) Poland, and Germany. USPS does not know anything further other than once something is added to the list it can't be transferred to the air carrier, or, if it makes it through, it will be rejected at the sorting facility in Europe. There are no shipping refunds via USPS if a shipment is rejected at any sorting facility. Currently Ronin is seeing 30+ days on returns of rejected items with two different stickers and one stamp depending on the county. France had 3-4 stickers. That's everything I know about shipping from the US to Europe. China to Europe is another animal all together. I don't see that one reopening for Ronin at this time. Rejected packages are total losses. Paul may decide to do things differently than Ronin of course. Hope that helps. Further replies here on recent (items ordered from February - current) and ongoing shipments will be very helpful from the community. Examples of what I see tracking wise on a few shipments. Tracking ends at Chicago and there is no new scan in Europe in many cases. Customers are not notified their package is in the EU. 1) Your item was processed through our CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER facility on March 3, 2019 at 9:24 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination. Status In-Transit March 3, 2019 at 9:24 am 2) Processed Through Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER Your item is being held in Customs at 6:56 pm on February 17, 2019 in MADRID AP, SPAIN. Status In-Transit February 17, 2019 at 6:56 pm Held in Customs MADRID AP, SPAIN 3) Your item was processed through our CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER facility on February 18, 2019 at 12:16 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination. Status In-Transit February 18, 2019 at 12:16 am Processed Through Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER The operative words of possibility here seems to be a manifest issue. Over the years, descriptions such as "sporting goods" "fencing equipment" "decorative fill in the blank" etc seem to have raised fewer issues with carriers. If the carriers are being tagged on either end of the ponds, it is a carrier "flag" that appears to be the issue. Aside from calling each and every customs dept, it is the initial business and shipper that manifest the goods. In a recent thread regarding the UK and mentioned here was a custom maker unable to ship from the UK. We know this is an instance but Todeschini ships to the US without an issue. We do have an erstwhile KOA rep posting here and perhaps he may be able to shed some light on the developing issues. In fact, and this could be added as a subforum here at SBG is a designated area and pinned threads one can contribute to. The legal issues as well, in the same subforum. SFI and Bladeforums both have always had such rooms. I'm not going to call out anyone in particular for "the sky is falling" postings and thread starters but as with this thread, discussion typically devolves to preaching to the choir and other disturbances that make a lot of white noise. The noise to signal ratio is really important in discussing such issues and I hope the producers "manufacturers" and makers can pool their current and projected future shipment issues. Individual sales and shipping will follow those leads. There are two US resources that distributors should be aware of and participate in www.akti.org/kniferights.org/Both the above are active at the legislative levels and your local politics and laws a part of the whole. Be involved or let life evolve as you see it. As an international community, it would behoove all to respect each other's laws without backbiting and whining. I'll leave it at that except all should be aware and active in any legislation or decision by a private party (ie shippers, carriers et al) Anyway, run "sporting goods" up the international flag pole but do clarify with shippers and carriers allow for any category one might list an item as. Machetes are garden tools, right? Do not quote this post unless you expect me to respond. I didn't post it to bicker at all but I do point to the community at large to at least try to be civil in this matter. with world interests Glen Cleeton
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Post by airborne on Mar 31, 2019 8:17:08 GMT
Can any member confirm this ruling only applies to swords ? and that you can still order other products such as any furniture ,Tsukas Ito wrap etc from the ebay sites or direct from China to the UK ? with thanks
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Post by MOK on Mar 31, 2019 9:34:16 GMT
Can any member confirm this ruling only applies to swords ? and that you can still order other products such as any furniture ,Tsukas Ito wrap etc from the ebay sites or direct from China to the UK ? with thanks There doesn't seem to be a ruling. That's part of the problem.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Mar 31, 2019 10:40:02 GMT
I can't speak specifically about shipping swords to Europe, but I do know about shipping items from Europe to the US. Most of the machines at my factory are made in Germany and Italy, so I buy on the order of $3 mil a year in parts and tooling from the EU. The only time I have an issue with customs is when the manifest is worded incorrectly or uses technical terms that the average Joe working at the sorting facility wouldn't understand.
For example, most of my shipments come in under "spare parts" or "machine tools". I don't have any issues with that at all. But occasionally the box is too specific and says "clamping cylinder" or "spindle liners". Those shipments always require multiple phone calls and several waiver documents to clear customs.
Perhaps sword shipments could be labeled as generic "sporting goods" or "decorative collectible". Something the average worker at the customs wouldn't need to think too much about.
I certainly hope our brothers and sisters in the EU get this worked out soon. I shudder to think about the future when guns are banned, knives are banned, swords are banned, bows and arrows are banned, pointed sticks are banned. Because history shows when it gets to that point, it always ends in an armed uprising. And nobody wants another war in Europe.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 31, 2019 12:05:42 GMT
For me it looks like USPS or their air carrier has some problems with incorrectly declared swords in a few European countries (including Switzerland, which isn't in the EU) , goes the easy way and blames the EU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 13:59:04 GMT
For me it looks like USPS or their air carrier has some problems with incorrectly declared swords in a few European countries (including Switzerland, which isn't in the EU) , goes the easy way and blames the EU. Like i said, bro... like i said. SCHMARRN!
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Post by Ronin Katana on Mar 31, 2019 14:52:04 GMT
After talking with Ryan over at KoA, he has seen the same thing Ronin has and has moved to UPS shipping for the EU. He told me that in his talks with the USPS and his agents that the problem is air carriers to the EU are allowed to reject shipments that have weapons on them which is what's happening. Rejection causes an automatic return and consumption of postage. Shippers are out the postage costs and face long delays in getting packages back.
"Here is what I found out. These items are fine to import for most of the destinations we are shipping to. However, USPS has a policy that will allow the pilot of the flight containing the shipments to reject the packages for any reason...there does not seem to be any way to get your postage back when the USPS fails to provide the paid for service in these cases. After complaining to our Endicia rep, and various postal service reps to no avail, we simply stopped offering USPS as an option to Europe. I’m not willing to gamble with the postage for every shipment to Europe, so our business is just going to UPS."
So why would pilots reject sword and knife shipments to the EU? We can only speculate why unfortunately. Given when this started aggressively, in January of 2019, there is clearly a lot more to this than just pilots suddenly deciding to enforce their option to not transport weapons. My goods were labeled Historical Replica. You would need to open it or scan it to see what the package actually contained. In 15 years of shipping to the EU, this is the biggest problem I've encountered, and the losses are large enough that Ronin ended all shipments to the EU over it last week.
My personal opinion is that this is a soft ban. Someone has decided to see what will happen if packages get rejected and the postage is a total loss. Pilots could have had a meeting and decided they were going to change the world and reject packages, but that seems unlikely. My brother in law is a pilot for Delta and he says he could not care less about it as it would be time consuming and cause waves. And to that point, why were they given this right, and when? Is it EU pilots or all pilots? Logistically it makes no sense.
Again, I think this is by design. There is no need to change a single law when pressure can be applied and you can get the same result. I am not a citizen of the EU, and thus have no say in how things are done over there. I'm going to take the path of least resistance as I have to worry about profits. If I'm losing money every time I ship, I'm going to stop doing it. If that's in fact what the EU wants, they are going to see the traffic flow shift away from USPS and to private carriers which increases prices and decreases demand.
That's what I know. The facts are simply these; USPS has started aggressively rejecting packages with swords/knives. Dealers are either dropping the EU as a destination, or are switching to a more expensive carrier increasing costs for customers. Why? We can only speculate.
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Post by MOK on Mar 31, 2019 14:53:21 GMT
BTW, I don't know how relevant this is, but I received a steel waster from Kvetun Armouries (so shipped from Russia to Finland) just the other week. Declared as sporting equipment, no problems of any kind.
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Post by MOK on Mar 31, 2019 15:02:43 GMT
This might be something like what happened with starting pistols in Finland some time ago. They're perfectly legal to import and trade, requiring no licenses or permits of any kind as long as they can't be converted to actual firearms, but at one point some official or a handful of officials in Finnish customs just up and decided to interpret the law such that in practice anything could be converted to a firearm with enough work (in reality this would typically require replacing every single part of the device, meaning it would literally be easier to just build a gun from scratch). Nothing in the relevant laws or regulations had changed, but suddenly shipments of replica firearms and blank firing guns that were just fine before were being seized by customs. It took several years of legal battles to clear the mess, precisely because it was based on no official ruling and in fact no legal basis of any kind, just some officious busybodies overstepping their authority.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 15:52:52 GMT
"I am not a citizen of the EU, and thus have no say in how things are done over there." Actually a sentence which makes some sense. And while you are at your EU rant, you should remember that this stuff happened also to shipments to Switzerland and Norway, for example... Neither Switzerland nor Norway are members of the EU. If your speculations would be right, shipments through couriers like FedEx or UPS wouldnt be POSSIBLE at all; the shipping companies would be informed quite quick on a matter of weapon bans! So the sh*t is happening, its bad enough, and no one knows why; but please: i am fed up with EU bashes or hearsays - being on this matter or not - from a country were obviously things are not running all too SMART or LOGICAL either.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 31, 2019 17:15:15 GMT
The problem has nothing to do with the EU because there are problems with some Not-EU countries and no problems with some EU countries. It's not a sword import ban because other companies can ship the swords. A Pan-European carrier pilot conspiracy against USPS but not other US companies is hard to believe.
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Post by Ronin Katana on Mar 31, 2019 17:36:27 GMT
"I am not a citizen of the EU, and thus have no say in how things are done over there." Actually a sentence which makes some sense. And while you are at your EU rant, you should remember that this stuff happened also to shipments to Switzerland and Norway, for example... Neither Switzerland nor Norway are members of the EU. If your speculations would be right, shipments through couriers like FedEx or UPS wouldnt be POSSIBLE at all; the shipping companies would be informed quite quick on a matter of weapon bans! So the sh*t is happening, its bad enough, and no one knows why; but please: i am fed up with EU bashes or hearsays - being on this matter or not - from a country were obviously things are not running all too SMART or LOGICAL either. I am not engaging in an EU rant. Sorry you feel that way. I've posted facts as I've experienced them and included responses from others in the industry, and when I have speculated, I've done so with explanation. If you want companies to engage with the public on SBG perhaps you should be a little less adversarial and insulting in your responses.
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Post by Siward on Mar 31, 2019 18:06:40 GMT
Oldvesemir You need to chill. Firstly the pilots have decided to stop accepting the packages, why, we don’t know but it seems logical to assume that governments of the EU, though not all of them, have put pressure on the pilots. How can I be sure, well a) because this impacted multiple countries at the same time and b) it didn’t affect all EU countries. Any pilot body taking some sort of arbitrary position isn’t going to be applying it to France and Spain but not Germany and Poland are they They’d apply it blanket regardless of country. The fact this is being applied to some EU countries and not others indicates it is country driven not pilot driven. Secondly, I’m a European and as a European not quite sure why you’re taking such a weird position with Ronin or Paul, they are simply reporting the current position and I for one am grateful for that. So they use the blanket term EU, so what, are you seriously expecting them to list all 28 members !?? To respond aggressively on that point is just being an idiot, sorry if that offends. So, chill out, stop being a kn*b, and take any info from any of the vendors as a free gift because they don’t have to give it !!!
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