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Post by ethanb on Feb 1, 2019 18:59:10 GMT
I also asked this question in a previous thread of mine, but it wasn’t really on topic for that thread, so I figured I would start a new one. I had been thinking of modifying a dsa sword I already have with new fittings, but after doing more research, I think it may be a better idea to just get a bare blade to put custom fittings on. On Albion’s website, they have a 36” longsword blade for $240 heat treated. Looking at it, it looks like I would need to polish and sharpen it, but is there anything else their bare blades require to be made useful?
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 1, 2019 19:30:10 GMT
not really, just need to have the profile finished, polished and sharpened and ofc fittings
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Post by ethanb on Feb 1, 2019 21:25:17 GMT
how would one finish the profile? From what I've heard, one can't power grind a blade after heat treatment due to the heat generated by grinding wheel/belts, so would it have to be done by hand?
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Post by ethanb on Feb 1, 2019 22:24:09 GMT
and another question, while searching the interwebs, I came across the information that Baltimore Knife and Sword sells bare blades, and it looks like not as much work would be required to make one of those ready for use. How does their quality compare to Albion? I've seen them on youtube, and they've done some cool stuff, but how good are their commercially available swords?
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 2, 2019 14:02:16 GMT
Albion bare blades are not finished blades and require a not insignificant amount of work to finish. The blade will still have the milling marks from the machine work and a very thin coat of scale if you opt to get it heat treated. The entire blade will need to be finish ground and sanded which is a good bit more involved than just sharpening and polishing.
You can do the majority of the rough finishing work on a belt grinder but need to cool the blade often by dunking it in water. Any machine finishing on a heat treated blade can damage the temper if you aren't careful. If the blade gets warm to the touch, it's getting too hot and if the blade gets any heat coloring while working on it, it's overheated.
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Post by ethanb on Feb 2, 2019 15:19:03 GMT
would doing the rough finishing work be possible with hand tools? I don't have a belt grinder, but do have plenty of stones and other things I use for shaping and sharpening lathe tools and chisels
edit: I also recently acquired a bench grinder, would that work for rough finishing, even though it uses wheels rather than belts?
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Post by ethanb on Feb 3, 2019 16:28:16 GMT
If any of you know of resources for learning about the process of finishing a blade, advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, here is my finished sword design for any people who are interested. wolf sword 2 by Ethan B, on Flickr
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Alan Schiff
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Post by Alan Schiff on Feb 5, 2019 19:50:03 GMT
On the Albion blades I've worked on I used an angle grinder with a 120-grit flap wheel to get the scale off and a rotary sander with various grits for polishing, along with hand sanding. Both tools are fairly cheap, about $30 each.
A flap wheel on the bench grinder might work. I wouldn't recommend a regular grinding wheel, as they are lower grits and will be too aggressive. Also, if you are planning on working on more blades and/or fittings, a 1x30 belt sander is a good investment, they're pretty cheap and belts are available in numerous grits.
Any way you go, I advise anyone to practice on some scrap pieces first, get a feel for how the machine works, how much pressure to use, etc. Better to go through a few cheap pieces of metal than to mess up your blade.
Also, as Brotherbanzai said, just need to be careful about heat buildup when using power tools on a heat-treated blade.
Hope that helps, Alan
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Post by ethanb on Feb 5, 2019 20:36:32 GMT
On the Albion blades I've worked on I used an angle grinder with a 120-grit flap wheel to get the scale off and a rotary sander with various grits for polishing, along with hand sanding. Both tools are fairly cheap, about $30 each. A flap wheel on the bench grinder might work. I wouldn't recommend a regular grinding wheel, as they are lower grits and will be too aggressive. Also, if you are planning on working on more blades and/or fittings, a 1x30 belt sander is a good investment, they're pretty cheap and belts are available in numerous grits. Any way you go, I advise anyone to practice on some scrap pieces first, get a feel for how the machine works, how much pressure to use, etc. Better to go through a few cheap pieces of metal than to mess up your blade. Also, as Brotherbanzai said, just need to be careful about heat buildup when using power tools on a heat-treated blade. Hope that helps, Alan Thanks for the advice on the flap wheel! I've heard that a good deal of time needs to be spent grinding the blades down, as they are left with a thick edge for heat treating, however you make it sound like that is not something you needed to do. Does albion heat treat blades with edges already somewhat sharpened, or is that something I still need to do?
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Feb 5, 2019 23:01:52 GMT
Possibly a dumb question but have you looked at the hanwei tinker bare blades? www.kultofathena.com/bareblades.aspThey have a good reputation and require little if any work on the blade itself.
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Post by ethanb on Feb 5, 2019 23:57:36 GMT
Possibly a dumb question but have you looked at the hanwei tinker bare blades? www.kultofathena.com/bareblades.aspThey have a good reputation and require little if any work on the blade itself. I saw those, I like the length of the Albion blade better, and I’m not afraid of doing some diy work (I actually like making things myself), but I may go for one of the Hanwei blades if it ends up making more sense Edit: also, they are out of stock pretty much everywhere
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 6, 2019 13:07:08 GMT
Albion bare blades are left thick everywhere for heat treatment and are not heat treated with a somewhat sharpened edges. The entire blade needs to be ground down. You could just sand off the scale and grind a steeply beveled edge onto it, but that would be a good bit off from what the finished geometry was intended to be, and in that case, why buy an Albion? It would make more sense to buy a cheaper, already finished blade and use it instead. Is that the pommel you were making yourself that you had asked me about casting for you? Looks a lot like a pommel I've already done. Keep in mind that you can't hot peen a pommel like that.
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Post by ethanb on Feb 6, 2019 15:56:52 GMT
I figured it couldn’t be peened, but the foundry I found who could probably make it, said a pilot hole could be cast, that could then be drilled out and tapped afterwords. Buying a cheaper blade does look appealing, however some of the reviews of the Hanwei tinker blades I’ve seen were less than favorable. Granted they were older reviews, has the quality gotten better?
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Feb 6, 2019 16:09:36 GMT
Keep in mind that you can't hot peen a pommel like that. Anything can be a semprini if you're brave enough. With some planning and diligent cleanup work, the peen could be the wolf's nose. You could even use a chemical blackening agent after the peen has been shaped for an added contrast to the bronze.
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Alan Schiff
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Post by Alan Schiff on Feb 8, 2019 1:22:20 GMT
Thanks for the advice on the flap wheel! I've heard that a good deal of time needs to be spent grinding the blades down, as they are left with a thick edge for heat treating, however you make it sound like that is not something you needed to do. Does albion heat treat blades with edges already somewhat sharpened, or is that something I still need to do? The edges are not sharpened, they're about 2mm thick. It took me several hours of work to get each blade to where they need to be. Much less time than grinding from bar stock, but more than just going over the edge. Like BrotherBanzai said, the whole blade needs to be thinned out, with the possible exception of the spine. That means grinding on the bevels to remove the scale and grinding marks, thinning the cross-section, and then final polishing and sharpening. When I mentioned using the angle grinder to remove the scale, I also reduce the thickness of the bevels at that time.
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