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Post by pellius on Dec 30, 2020 22:23:38 GMT
Swedish Model 1851 Cutlass My 2020 hobby funds had run very low, but I got a few modest birthday and Christmas gifts of cash and specific orders to spend it on something fun rather than bills. It was just enough to cover buying this cutlass; a model that I have been wanting for nearly 3 years. I have one more item that should be coming in sometime in the next few weeks. Then I'll have to take a break for a while. Anyway, I just picked this up from the post office today.  Despite its name and the mundane appearance of its hilt and scabbard, this sword feels like a proper foot saber to me. It is quick in the hand with an easy recovery and authority in the cut. It has decent reach and good point control. It is very pleasant to wield. The blade is in very good condition. It is appropriately stiff, and boasts good non-linear distal taper. Though broad in profile, the foible is slim in cross section. If properly sharpened, it should easily cleave through anything short of mail. It is too broad in profile to outright skewer anything, but it would still be deadly in the thrust. The broad blade permits techniques that rely on the off-hand or body to support the spine in close maneuvering and trapping.  The curved grip is confident and comfortable, connecting the hand to the point and cutting edge with ergonomic intuition. The steel bowl may not be attractive to the eye, but the bare sword hand thinks it's beautiful.  I don't really care for the so-called japanning of the hilt and scabbard. It isn't in very good shape, and has clearly been refinished a number of times over a flaked and unprepared older finish. It entirely lacks the deep luster of true lacquer based japanning, and instead looks like acrylic paint applied over raw chipped paint. Indeed, I worry that rust may be hiding under there. I may try to remove the old (paint?) japanning and apply a more dignified somewhat authentic finish.  Cheers. Note - I posted this on the New Acquisitions thread, too. In the past, I would do a separate more detailed write up here. I'm just not able to do that at the moment. But I like this sword a lot, and I've been hunting one for years. I just HAD to write about it here.
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AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,327
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 31, 2020 6:37:24 GMT
Cool! "Patton-Falcata"?  |
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Post by markus313 on Dec 31, 2020 8:10:22 GMT
Very nice. And very alluring to see how one of these would feel in motion. Great pictures as always. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by pellius on Dec 31, 2020 20:58:45 GMT
Andi - Thanks. Over time, I’ve found that I am very partial to the curvier swords; especially the S-curved saber and the recurved falcata.
To my imagination, these Swedish recurved swords are like mythical antediluvian blades inexplicably crafted by industrial forges.
Markus - Thank you. After straining to press the faskinkniv beyond its single-minded limb-chopping nature, I was pleasantly surprised by the nuanced and sophisticated handling of the cutlass. It is an athletic fighter, eager for the duel or melee.
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Post by pellius on Feb 25, 2021 13:41:00 GMT
(Copied from the New Acquisitions thread. This is here so I can expand upon it a bit with more info and stats and such. You know - when I have some free time. lol) Here's a few photos of my newest acquisitions, a French m1822 Light Cav Trooper and a Swiss m1867 Cav NCO.  Side by side, Frenchie on top. Here, the Swissie's integrated finger loop can be seen. I may employ Uhlan's leather repair "hack" to help stabilize the remaining leather wrap. The difference in grip wire is pretty clear here. The Swissie actually boasts a pair of double-twisted wire wraps. Still, compared to the Frenchie's wrap, they are vanishingly small. I'm a big fan of 19C Swiss swords, as they are attractive, serious, well engineered, and meticulously constructed. They are also generally available in excellent shape for very reasonable prices, presumably because they never played an active role in any contemporaneous wars. To be honest, I didn't even know the m1867 NCO was a thing, but I like it. The m1867 Cav Trooper is one of my favorite designs - a big broad serious saber with good handling and a well sorted hilt. The NCO version differs from the Trooper in the delicate (thus likely decorative) double wire wrapped grip and the finger loop integrated above the ferule. Though I haven't had a chance to compare it side-by-side with my Trooper, the blade seems identical.  The Swissie's guard bowl is much more serious than the Frenchie's plate and bars, yet the hilt doesn't feel much heavier. It's almost like having a built in buckler, and inspires confidence. It is also, of course, ambidextrous. The French 1822 LC Trooper is my favorite sword model, as they are beautiful, historically influential, great in handling, and reasonably affordable. My newest example seems identical in dimensions and handling to my somewhat older Klingenthal example, but this first-gen 1840 Chatellerault example is in better unmolested shape. It is still nice and tight, and rings when struck. The wire wrap looks original, and the peen is undamaged. The finish is nice with sharp fuller transitions and no pitting or heavy patina. I suspect it has been cleaned, as the forte counter-polish extends farther on the spine than the sides, and the blade is quite sharp. This is now my very favorite saber in my collection, and I'm very happy to have it.  The Swissie's thumb plate works with the finger loop to give a very authoritative control over the sword. Nonetheless, the Frenchie is still snappier and more responsive to my hand. Possibly to compensate for the bowl's weight, the Swissie is thinner at the forte, and does not have the dramatic non-linear distal taper at the ricasso that the Frenchie features. Overall, the sword feels a bit heavier, but surprises in its responsiveness.  At the middle, the Frenchie is thicker but not as broad as the Swissie. The Swissie has a slightly longer foible reminiscent of the Solingen copies of the Fr. 1822. Both sport the abrupt non-linear distal taper here.I took photos of the two together as a sort of compare & contrast effort. Cheers. |
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Post by pellius on Apr 7, 2021 5:06:08 GMT
Swedish Model 1842/47 Cavalry Saber
In my exuberance, I only took photos of the group. The 1842/47 is on top.
At long last I have acquired a Swedish m1842/47 cavalry sword. I have seen various internet folks refer to the model as a saber, while others call it a pallasch. Having a straight spine and recurved edge kinda puts it in a class all its own, I suppose.
At top, you can see the scabbard drag. It is an interesting shape. That the scabbard is bare at its termination is intentional, and presumably an entirely aesthetic choice.
I first encountered this model about two years into my sword collecting endeavors, as I had just started to dip my little toe into the deep and spooky ocean of antique 18-20th Century European military swords. At the time, I had no inkling that swords such as this existed, or that they were occasionally available at prices even a casual enthusiast such as myself could manage. I just happened upon a thread here on SBG discussing the model and its cousins, and was smitten.
As is typical, I started joining various social media platforms where many knowledgeable enthusiasts, serious collectors, and niche dealers were gathered. After about three years of gently poking about, I managed to snag my first Swedish m1848 faskinkniv. This was a real prize to me, as its fantasy world styling and sturdy construction checked all my "cool" boxes. A few months later, I found a Swedish m1851 cutlass, and was very impressed with its serious fighting disposition despite its fanciful artistic lines.
A nice broad guard, though slightly squished. I have yet to clean it up, so remnants of old waxing are still present.
The pallasch was the prize I most sought, but examples in decent shape for a decent price eluded me. This seems to be the story of every "commonly available" model upon which I set my sights. When this one popped up, I grabbed it.
The seller made no attempt to puff its condition. I think the modest price reasonably took into account the shortcomings.
Another view of the guard with the back strap. The leather grip wrap and washer are conspicuously absent, leaving a bit of play in the hilt.
The blade is very nice, with no rust or pitting, and very little black patina. And it is an impressive blade to behold in person. The maker and inspection marks are nice and clear. The blade seems to never have been sharpened, and suffers only a single minor nick. It has a very slight bend about 2/3 down its length that I may try to bend true at some point. It is only noticeable when sighting down the blade.
The hilt is a bit worse for wear, with a grip missing its leather wrap. The hilt washer is also absent. The peen and cross-pin are intact and unmolested, leaving a hilt that is secure, but with a small bit of movement. The brass guard is also slightly distorted, as if someone fell on it from a horse. The distortion is really not too bad overall, but close inspection reveals stress marks along the width of the guard.
The sword has a bit of distal taper. Probably due to the blade's sheer width, the blade thickness is pretty modest, and lacks the dramatic ricasso taper of its French contemporaries.
I'm not really sure whether this is a m1842 or '47. My understanding is that the major difference is the latter has a longer grip and larger guard. I've seen photos of the two models side by side, and they look the same to me, save one being a bit bigger. With only relative comparisons rather than strict measurements, I'm just not sure which mine is. If I had to guess, I would go with '42, as the grip seems big enough for a saber grip in gauntlets, but not really "roomy." It was sold as a m1842/47, so dunno.
The ricasso bears an anchor, which an old Swordforum thread and a couple of auction sites identify as a maker mark of Eskilstuna Jernmanufaktur of Eskilstuna, Sweden. There are also two inspector stamps; "TLN" of Theodor Ludvig Norlander (so says the internet), and "EGT" to which I have found references but not an identification.
The peen seems intact, and the wood grip itself seems well preserved.
The sword handles surprisingly well considering its broad profile. Though not a fencing saber, it feels confident and controllable, with a bit of snap and acceptable recovery. It does, of course, have a bit of presence in the hand.
Though there are other Swedish models made in this design aesthetic, these three were the ones in which I was keenly interested. So, for now, I feel this part of my collection is happily complete.
Inspection marks. Also, what the ricasso lacks in steep cross-sectional distal taper is more than made up for in profile taper.
Cheers.
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Post by pellius on May 6, 2021 5:16:56 GMT
Prussian Model 1811 Cavalry Saber "Bluchersabel" (1831) For folks who aren't into meandering pointless prose, I'll give the measurements first. Due to my crude measuring tools and environment, and the deep curve of the sword, measurements are approximate.  WeightSaber - 1038 grams / 2 pounds 5 ounces Saber and scabbard - 2253 grams / 5 pounds (!) Point of balance - 5 1/2" from the cross guard measured perpendicular to the cross guard Point of balance - 5 1/4" from the cross guard measured along the line from the spine at guard to the tip (sori line?) Distal fuller termination - 7 3/8" from tip Center of Percussion (waggle method) - at distal fuller termination  Blade lengthLength along sori line - 32" Sori deflection - 2 1/2"  Blade widthAt cross guard - 1 1/2" 3" from cross guard - 1 3/8" 12" from cross guard - 1 3/8" Fuller termination - 1 1/2" 4 1/2" from tip - 1 5/8" (widest point on the blade) 2" from tip - 1 7/16"  Blade thicknessAt cross guard - 9mm 3" from cross guard - 7.3mm (this is approx. point of transition from steep distal taper to less steep linear distal taper) 12" from cross guard - 5.8mm Fuller termination - 3.2mm (at the point where the fuller diverges from the spine, the spine begins to taper to a false edge, creating a lenticular cross section) 4 1/2" from tip - 2.7mm 2" from tip - 2.4mm  HiltHilt length - 5" (not including langets) Grip length - 4" Grip at widest - 1 9/16" Grip thickness - 1" Cross guard thickness - 6.7mm  This is another model that I have long sought. Though not a rare sword, good examples don't seem to surface very often without a rather unreasonable monetary premium attached. When this one appeared for sale in the US at "only" full retail, I set out to acquire it. After some finagling, I got my paws on it. And let me tell you, it is every bit as audacious in person as in photos.  Two things happened since I acquired my last cavalry saber, both of which will unfortunately be a bit of a drag on this mini-review. First, I managed to strain my right shoulder. While not serious, I expect it will be a couple of weeks before it is up to serious sword shenanigans. I currently can't pick up my new-to-me saber and vigorously swing it about. So I can't share my anecdotal impressions about its dynamics and such. I can say that the sword feels very lively and maneuverable in small movements, and I suspect it just loves to cut.  Second, and a bit more troubling, middle age seems to have finally pounced upon me, and my close-up vision has begun to blur just a bit. Not too bad, yet, though my pride groans in anguish. Until I get it sorted out, I can't really examine this thing in tiny detail. When I was taking photos of the saber, I first though my iPhone camera was just refusing to focus. Ha ha, old geezer; the camera was fine. So if the photos are a bit blurry, lets just blame it on the image compression, shall we.  Moving right along, Pino kindly wrote a very useful article on the Bluchersabel family: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/54497/bluchersabel-1811-1939Of the four generations he identified, I had managed to collect examples of the later two, which are artillery sabers. Though they are very impressive and serious weapons, art'y sabers just don't have the same commanding presence as a turn-of-the-century cavalry saber.  This one is in outstanding condition by the standards of my collection. The blade is straight and undamaged, and has never been sharpened. There is a little black patina, but no rust, pitting, or corrosion, even under the langets. The fuller transitions are still crisp, and the hatchet point is fully intact. The spine has a couple of stamps that are still pretty sharp. One is "1831." I can't quite make out the other. My eyesight seems to be in open rebellion at the moment, so I can't make out whether there are any blade markings under the langets.  The hilt is firm, with an intact peen and no movement. The blackening seems to have preserved it extremely well, as I can't detect any degradation at all. I can only see one issue stamp on the hilt. I'll try to figure out what it means at some point. The leather grip wrap ia still in very good condition with only a small loss near the pommel. It still feels very secure, though perhaps not supple. Even the washer is intact.  The scabbard is also in outstanding condition, with no dents or missing bits. The blackening is still very uniform and un-worn, save where the langets grip it. I can see two issue stamps there, and I suspect they don't match the saber. I can live with that.  Overall, this is a very imposing sword. With an overall length of about 37 inches, it seems a bit short when compared to, say, a French 1822 or Swiss 1867. The relatively short blade length makes it seem almost comically over-broad in proportion. Topping off the look with its signature widened foible really punctuates the fearsome statement this sword makes. "This. Sword. Will. Cut."       Cheers!
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Post by markus313 on May 6, 2021 10:51:52 GMT
Pellius, thank you very much for sharing your impressions including the data. Fanatastic pictures also and I always enjoy reading about your thoughts on a sword. This is much appreciated, especially since I have my own Blücher on the way. It is not in such pristine condition, however. So again, congrats on a great purchase and best wishes to your well-being, so you can enjoy your life and hobbies to the fullest.
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Post by pellius on May 6, 2021 11:07:50 GMT
Thank you for the kind words, Markus. Congrats on your upcoming Blucher! I hope you will be able to share photos and your impressions when you get it.
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Post by bas on May 7, 2021 3:11:38 GMT
Thank you for the stats Pellius.
Interesting that the point of balance is so far back at 140mm compared to my 1796 types, I wonder if that is a factor of the beefer guards on your sword. Certainly better in my inexperienced view than the 210mm on my Dutch made 1796 which just feels like a cleaver.
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Post by pellius on May 7, 2021 4:18:34 GMT
Bas - I’ve never held a 1796p, so I can’t make any first hand comparisons. I would’ve thought that being lighter overall would’ve made the 1796 more lively and responsive.
As an aside, the 1796’s are very desirable, and it sounds like you have a few! That’s great.
A number of commentators have described the 1811 as being a beefier 1796, especially in the hilt. However, the comparisons seem to be focused on distinguishing one pattern from the other rather than directly analyzing the specific effects on handling those differences make. The analysis always seems to stop at pointing out that weightier swords feel heavier. For example:
While a heavier hilt pulls the PoB back, it of course also increases the overall weight. Hard to say whether such a trade-off would actually make a sword handle better. SBG member Timo and Peter Dekker of Mandarin Mansion have opined that adding mass even at the pommel can actually make the balance worse. They would know.
I once filled the pommel of my Hanwei oxtail saber with brass bb’s to bring the balance back on the sword. It did, but I couldn’t detect an improvement in handling.
Hopefully my shoulder will be all better soon, and I’ll be able to swing my new saber about with some purpose. Still, I’m only an enthusiast. Perhaps an accomplished swordsman such as Dave Kelly will share their expertise and experience with us.
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Post by bas on May 7, 2021 4:37:08 GMT
Pellius, I only have the ones that you have seen; the Dutch m1813 trooper and the British 1796 Yeomanry officer. Plus I have another British 1796 officer on the way.
So not nearly enough to have the experience to match my big mouth. To make it worse, aside from half a year of fencing when I was at high school I have zero sword handling skills. So I look forward to your speedy recovery and reading about your impressions.
Edit: I think that ideally the comparison should be between a 1796 trooper and m1811 trooper as the officer swords tend to be lighter.
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Post by markus313 on May 7, 2021 11:55:45 GMT
Not saying I know anything, though regarding the interesting subject of handling characteristics, I’m looking forward to compare a 1796 trooper (made by Osborn) and an m1811 trooper once my Blücher arrives.
And to read others' impressions on that matter, of course. |
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Post by bas on May 7, 2021 12:14:56 GMT
Maybe this should be a topic of its' own? But here is an article that Matt Easton posted on weight, length and balance of the 1769 Light cavalry sabre: www.antique-swords.co.uk |
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Post by pellius on May 7, 2021 20:31:13 GMT
Bas - I studied very little sword fighting myself, so my sword impressions are anecdotal indeed. I’m nonetheless very enthusiastic about swinging them about!
Markus - I’m really looking forward to your comparisons. If you start a thread, I’ll be sure to check it out.
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Post by pellius on Mar 26, 2023 19:41:39 GMT
**updated, but still in progress**
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Post by pellius on Mar 28, 2023 0:42:54 GMT
List is updated.
It may take a while to get photos posted.
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Post by pellius on Apr 16, 2023 18:56:13 GMT
 This was just too good not to keep. (Courtesy of soulfromheart from the Joke thread) |
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Post by pellius on Apr 16, 2023 22:14:25 GMT
Thanks to some very kind SBG members, I have a Swedish Model 1831 Mounted Artillery Saber and an Albion Machiavelli inbound. Also, a couple of L Driggers pieces are finished and on their way, too!
😃
I’ll try to snap a few quick pics when they arrive. Most of the other new additions were bought from the classifieds here, so photos are already floating around on the site somewhere.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Apr 21, 2023 20:02:16 GMT
Thanks to some very kind SBG members, I have a Swedish Model 1831 Mounted Artillery Saber and an Albion Machiavelli inbound. Also, a couple of L Driggers pieces are finished and on their way, too! 😃 I’ll try to snap a few quick pics when they arrive. Most of the other new additions were bought from the classifieds here, so photos are already floating around on the site somewhere. You will have 6 of mind to take pictures of. The last 3 are finally moving through the system and I shipped them last Fri, So much for 2 day delivery. |
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