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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 30, 2018 0:46:33 GMT
Ok. I'm getting to the point in life where I really need to settle down with either serious college or a serious job. I absolutely love swords, axes, and knives. I'm often frustrated with the budget market having weird idiosyncratic features that throw things off, like too long of grips on carolingian swords, black leather grips with cultures that didn't have black dye, and triangular blade profiles regardless of culture. I have an idea to start a sword manufacturing business that would make good quality, truly historically accurate budget swords, knives, and axes. Starting capital isn't the biggest issue. I can get a substantial loan and live in an industrial city ripe for manufacturing. What I want to know is just how big of a risk am I taking with this idea? I can get the business started with effort, but I don't want to crash and burn with little chance of success. Is this a pipe dream or is it actually a decent idea?
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
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Post by pgandy on Dec 30, 2018 1:27:45 GMT
I believe a new manufacturer could make it. It would take capital to get started and time to build a reputation. I believe there is a market for someone that can make a good sword that is historically correct. I would suggest doing it as a hobby/sideline while collecting tools and building a reputation.
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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 30, 2018 1:36:17 GMT
I believe a new manufacturer could make it. It would take capital to get started and time to build a reputation. I believe there is a market for someone that can make a good sword that is historically correct. I would suggest doing it as a hobby/sideline while collecting tools and building a reputation. Thanks! I actually can get a substantial small business loan on account of being officially disabled(severe ADHD and a few other things I won’t say), so starting capital is a bit easier for me to get than most people. I have a dream of quality inexpensive historically accurate designs with quality grips. No cheap ahistorical black leather!
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Post by bebut on Dec 30, 2018 2:31:57 GMT
Once you say "quality inexpensive historically accurate" made in the USA I wonder. I'd like to see it, like I would like to see a quality inexpensive AK made in the US but it doesn't seem to be in the cards. The good stuff in the US, like Ontario Knives, is made by big boys in huge quantities with computer driven machines. Same with Swiss Army Knives, which come in huge volume from automated factory. That is the way they keep their costs down.
Could you compete with Windlass and do it a little better at not more than twice the retail price? There are mom and pop outfits like Scorpion, but look at their quality, workmanship, and price and wonder if you could do that plus make it look good with a fine finish?
To add onto Pgandy's comments, you would have to find a winning design in a niche market, do it well, and market it well. It could take a long time to put that bundle together.
I have 2 short swords I consider historically accurate, well made, and works of art. One made in the far boonies of Russia and I think a comparative bargain at the price and the other in Canada and I can see why it was discontinued because there are too many cheaper copies by other companies. Duplicating them at US costs doesn't seem likely. All of my other swords are only affordable because they are made by a big outfit in India to an acceptable but lower standard.
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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 30, 2018 2:45:14 GMT
Once you say "quality inexpensive historically accurate" made in the USA I wonder. I'd like to see it, like I would like to see a quality inexpensive AK made in the US but it doesn't seem to be in the cards. The good stuff in the US, like Ontario Knives, is made by big boys in huge quantities with computer driven machines. Same with Swiss Army Knives, which come in huge volume from automated factory. That is the way they keep their costs down. Could you compete with Windlass and do it a little better at not more than twice the retail price? There are mom and pop outfits like Scorpion, but look at their quality, workmanship, and price and wonder if you could do that plus make it look good with a fine finish? To add onto Pgandy's comments, you would have to find a winning design in a niche market, do it well, and market it well. It could take a long time to put that bundle together. All that is true, and why I have not already done it. What I'm aiming at is mid tier, kinda like del tin or albion's squire line, or even hanwei tinker line. The goal is to fill a niche I see, not make a million for myself. If I can keep the operation running while providing a livable income I would be happy. I'd do it for the art, not the riches. It's frustrating seeing the lack of accurate designs at anything less than Albion or semi customs like valiant for certain designs. I also want to directly oversee the production in America so I know the worker's conditions are good. I hate everything about outsourcing jobs to third world countries because of how horrible the conditions tend to be. I'd also be able to make sure dangerous shortcuts were not made.
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Post by pellius on Dec 30, 2018 2:50:05 GMT
With absolutely no disrespect and no condescension, my personal opinion is that a love and knowledge of how to run a successful business will be much more important than knowledge and love of the product itself, even if there is a huge demand for the product and even if you are able to produce it with great efficiency.
You may already have all that covered, of course, so no presumptions or anything.
Just mtc.
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Post by bebut on Dec 30, 2018 2:55:21 GMT
There are quite a few full time knife makers out there in this country. They work the shows and online to find the customers Maybe you should research how they started and survive on low volume but high quality. Many I think live in fairly obscure places to keep costs down. I think to many it is more of an art than manufacturing so you might fit in in that sense.
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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 30, 2018 3:26:46 GMT
With absolutely no disrespect and no condescension, my personal opinion is that a love and knowledge of how to run a successful business will be much more important than knowledge and love of the product itself, even if there is a huge demand for the product and even if you are able to produce it with great efficiency. You may already have all that covered, of course, so no presumptions or anything. Just mtc. Oh, I absolutely agree. I've seen too many excellent engineers and artists have a great product with zero business sense. I know what should work, but have no real experience, and there is still the chaos element. From what I've analyzed, the product is less important than business sense, which is less important than luck. The good thing about the sword community vs something like the gun community is the sword community is SLIGHTLY more forgiving with early business mistskes. You accidentally put out a bad gun batch and you are ruined forever. You put out a bad batch of swords and you MAY be forgiven if you improve. I love guns too but there is no way I'm getting into that business.
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Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Dec 30, 2018 6:55:16 GMT
I feel an ethical responsibility to try and dissuade you. You are looking to serve a niche part of a niche market. You expect to do so in North America with North American labor. Albion has trouble with employee turnover. Albion. There is a reason that DSA and VA have historically imported blades from Asia. You will need more than a middle price sword line to stay in business, and any such line needs to not be a primary source of income. Albion has its Squire line, but it's main revenue is from its Next Gen line. BKS makes most of its revenue from internet and television media deals. I think that starting a business shooting for the mid-range sword enthusiasts is a losing proposition. If you have some special angle or hook, I would love to hear it. If you have cartel money you need to launder, maybe it could work, but it will still be a loss leader.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Dec 30, 2018 9:13:25 GMT
Do you know anything about sword making? Have you made any?
Truly historical accurate and low/medium budget doesn't work in countries with a decent wage. One or the other.
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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 30, 2018 11:46:31 GMT
Yeah. Turns out the whole thing is a really stupid idea. Actually, it turns out starting any business, let alone a niche manufacturing business, is a really stupid idea for now and the foreseeable future. Sucks, but that’s the the the world works I’m afraid.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 30, 2018 15:02:58 GMT
Smart move not to do it. I owned my own business for 25 years and had more hands in my pockets than could fit. Put in over 60 hours a week building the business up only to watch the internet, bad economy and high cost of running a business take it down. Never turn a love into a business because it will destroy the love.
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Post by nerdthenord on Dec 30, 2018 15:22:26 GMT
Smart move not to do it. I owned my own business for 25 years and had more hands in my pockets than could fit. Put in over 60 hours a week building the business up only to watch the internet, bad economy and high cost of running a business take it down. Never turn a love into a business because it will destroy the love. Ain’t that the sad truth. What makes it worse is I could do it if I had a ton of disposable income, but I don’t and in all statistical likelihood never will. The rich get richer and the poor stay poor, or so I see. That’s all I can say without getting political.
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Post by MOK on Dec 30, 2018 15:37:21 GMT
Yeah. Turns out the whole thing is a really stupid idea. Actually, it turns out starting any business, let alone a niche manufacturing business, is a really stupid idea for now and the foreseeable future. Sucks, but that’s the the the world works I’m afraid. It's not necessarily that, but you need a whole bunch of different things to come together the right way for it to be feasible. Material assets, technical know-how, business know-how, a buying audience, ability to live a year or two with no or negative income... Starting a small business can be done, even in a niche industry like this, but it's hard, frustratingly luck-based, and the vast majority of start-ups will fail right out the gate for no real fault of their own. It's a gamble, is all; if you can afford to fail, go for it; if you can't, don't do it.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 30, 2018 15:52:05 GMT
I was assuming that you had some knowledge on the subject with a few tools and were considering going deeper into the subject. If you need to borrow to buy the tools to go into a new venture with little or no knowledge changes the picture. With a job to keep you going and doing this on the side as a hobby, as I suggested, until things began to fall in place could work. But with no experience and needing to borrow you might want to rethink the matter.
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Post by bebut on Dec 31, 2018 2:49:31 GMT
And we are overdue for a recession. Time to study and practice now. My bil was a truck driver all his life and he bought his first semi just in time to lose it in 2008.
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Dec 31, 2018 5:29:35 GMT
it is going to be hard work, you will start out underselling in order to build a buyer base before you can slowly start charging more as you become more well known, one screw up and your entire reputation could hit rock bottom and it is hard to recover from in an industry that is highly based on your product's quality. I think it can be done but expect to put in long hrs and not get paid a whole lot as well as having to deal with people dropping out of commissions and just not paying forcing you to have to list items for sale at low prices just to make back material costs. If u keep at it and do continuously good work you should eventually start getting better returns. But just have a backup in place if it does turn sideways
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Post by Croccifixio on Jan 2, 2019 8:13:40 GMT
Look at Stephen Lockwood swords for an idea of how these things go.
Perhaps you can take it slowly, and aim at establishing a brand at an industry that uses the same equipment such as knife-making. Go for the most popular type of knife, and work your way slowly to other kinds of knives actually used and needed out there, before trying your luck in a very niche market for an obsolete weapon that's mostly just bought for fun.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,651
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 2, 2019 8:20:49 GMT
Look at Stephen Lockwood swords for an idea of how these things go. Perhaps you can take it slowly, and aim at establishing a brand at an industry that uses the same equipment such as knife-making. Go for the most popular type of knife, and work your way slowly to other kinds of knives actually used and needed out there, before trying your luck in a very niche market for an obsolete weapon that's mostly just bought for fun. not mostly bought for fun, 1000% bought for fun, no one really needs a sword lol
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Post by Croccifixio on Jan 2, 2019 8:22:41 GMT
Look at Stephen Lockwood swords for an idea of how these things go. Perhaps you can take it slowly, and aim at establishing a brand at an industry that uses the same equipment such as knife-making. Go for the most popular type of knife, and work your way slowly to other kinds of knives actually used and needed out there, before trying your luck in a very niche market for an obsolete weapon that's mostly just bought for fun. not mostly bought for fun, 1000% bought for fun, no one really needs a sword lol Some buy for sport though (HEMA, FMA, JSA, CSA), which is kinda for fun but also for an added training reason. Heck, I know people who buy short swords to carry in the car because they can't get a firearms license :P
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