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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 7, 2018 0:53:25 GMT
Alternately, What Beats A Spear?
Just something I've been thinking about. Is there any melee weapon (or melee weapon combo) that has an advantage over a spear? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 1:01:51 GMT
Anything beats everything.
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Post by leviathansteak on Oct 7, 2018 1:02:38 GMT
A thrown spear? Heh
Well i think a sword and large shield stand a good chance against a spear.
A large two handed sword like a zweihander or montante would be good as well.
Id say any of the other polearms like a halberd or bill can do the job but that feels like too cheap an answer since spears are polearms too
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 7, 2018 1:08:42 GMT
Melee weapon combo? Rapier and dagger, cage of rapiers, sabre and pistol. Or if it counts, a carbine and bayonet. I'm thinking M4 with the current bayonet. Won't even use the bayonet but it's a melee weapon combo, technically.
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Post by mattjohn98 on Oct 7, 2018 1:12:02 GMT
Sword and Shield can beat spear. After all, the Roman legion defeated the Greek Phalanx.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 7, 2018 1:53:36 GMT
Is there any melee weapon (or melee weapon combo) that has an advantage over a spear? A longer spear. But not too much longer. About 3'/1m longer is ideal, for two-handed spears. More extra length than that, and you're not gaining any more useful reach advantage but it's costing you weight, rotational inertia, and leverage. Winged spears, spears with parrying bars, hooks, etc., and other polearms with similar trapping/blocking/hooking capability as long as the heads aren't too heavy are good. George Silver rates such things very highly: Not as good as those, and IMO not as good as spear, but dangerous to spear: greatsword with long quillons, especially with curled tips on the quillons and Parierhaken. Sword and shield (ideally, a medium-sized shield rather than a buckler or huge shield) and two swords are much better than many single weapons, but I'd rate spear as better. Two swords is a good choice for an easy-to-wear sidearm that is useful against spear, but you want to be more skilled than the spearman. Perhaps the most dangerous twin weapon to face with a spear might be Chinese hook swords. Kusarigama with a long enough chain to have a reach advantage would be dangerous. The weight + chain will keep you out of range if you want to be safe, and if you want to close in past the weight, you need to be very careful about getting too close.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 7, 2018 2:09:24 GMT
Interesting answers all. Spear is king, certainly, but there are a few weapons (or weapon combos) that can threaten it's place on the throne.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 7, 2018 2:37:27 GMT
Any 1h sword with a good sized shield I think does pretty well, the shield helps you close and the sword is more agile and dangerous once you're in the spearman's face.
If both fighters are armored, I think a longsword could also do pretty well.
Also, side rant because I see the same 3 or 4 comments on all threads like this. Yes, anything CAN beat anything else. Yes, the better fighter can overcome an equipment deficit. Yes, some of these advantages are circumstantial. Yes, some of the differences in weapon performance come down to minutia. However, obviously some weapons in some situations were better throughout history, otherwise knights would be sent into battle armed with sunflowers, fishing rods, and loaves of bread, because hey, it just matters who is the better fighter right? Who needs good weapons? Also, the whole point of a sword forum seems to be to discuss swords and their applications which is exactly what a thread like this is trying to do. Okay, rant done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 3:11:26 GMT
The same 3 or 4 comments come up because the same topics come up along with the same assumptions. Sorry it triggered you.
If the spear is inherently superior to everything else, why use anything else? Were they just dumb?
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 7, 2018 3:20:15 GMT
The same 3 or 4 comments come up because the same topics come up along with the same assumptions. Sorry it triggered you. If the spear is inherently superior to everything else, why use anything else? Were they just dumb? Im not "triggered", I'm not even mad at anybody, its just thoughts I hadn't written down the last several times I'd seen similar comments so I did it all at once now.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 7, 2018 3:23:24 GMT
The same 3 or 4 comments come up because the same topics come up along with the same assumptions. Sorry it triggered you. If the spear is inherently superior to everything else, why use anything else? Were they just dumb? And well, they DID use spears more than anything else. Every culture on the planet independently invented and used the spear for warfare. Europe, Japan, Native America, India, and literally everywhere else used spears for thousands of years. Of course, some armies needed to be more versatile and added things like sword wielding light cavalry or foot archers. But the fact remains, most people in most times used spears. Smaller weapons like swords and maces were just backup if you lost your spear, or an everyday carry weapon because its a little awkward to take your spear when you're running to the store to get some milk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 3:38:56 GMT
Why even bother with sword or anything else? Just use lighter or smaller spear as a backup since their are so awesome and ubiquitous. It's not like there's only one way to make a spear, and if it is that much better it wouldn't make sense to have anything else. Heck just carry a spare spear- Roman legionaires could manage two on top of everything else they were lugging around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 3:42:54 GMT
"I am the sword, deadly against all weapons. Neither spear, nor poleaxe, nor dagger can prevail against me." - some Italian derp who clearly didn't know a thing about hand to hand combat
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 7, 2018 4:05:58 GMT
Two rapiers?
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 7, 2018 4:24:51 GMT
Why even bother with sword or anything else? Just use lighter or smaller spear as a backup since their are so awesome and ubiquitous. It's not like there's only one way to make a spear, and if it is that much better it wouldn't make sense to have anything else. Heck just carry a spare spear- Roman legionaires could manage two on top of everything else they were lugging around. Because if you make a spear short enough it defeats the purpose? Just like if you gimp the trademark application of any weapon it becomes terrible? Thats like me arguing that guns are good and you responding "So why ever bother with a knife? Just use a gun without bullets if they're so great and ubiqutous".
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 7, 2018 4:29:33 GMT
"I am the sword, deadly against all weapons. Neither spear, nor poleaxe, nor dagger can prevail against me." - some Italian derp who clearly didn't know a thing about hand to hand combat At one point in the book he claims that he could take on a hundred assailants alone and win. The man likes his hyperbole.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 12:57:38 GMT
It's because the manner in which he instructs the weapons to be used is the important part. The how matters so much more than the what, but folks can't seem to grasp that or just don't want to.
That said, my waste-o-time gland is telling me it's probably best to just wish you the best so I hope you have an absolutely killer weekend.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 7, 2018 16:34:11 GMT
A shield will go a long way in neutralizing the effectiveness of a spear. Any missile weapon should trump a spear. A sling is easy to carry.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 7, 2018 16:55:07 GMT
Two rapiers??
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 7, 2018 17:44:19 GMT
I suggested a cage of rapiers (two rapiers) earlier. I went against that in a melee a couple weeks ago.
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