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Post by mattjohn98 on Sept 29, 2018 5:19:40 GMT
I understand there are many different kinds of each. So im going to just say all of them.
Who wins?
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Post by Elrikk on Sept 29, 2018 5:38:27 GMT
The guy with longer arms?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 29, 2018 5:41:56 GMT
I guess the basket hilt. An infantry sword vs. a cavalry sword in an infantry fight situation should have the advantages (even without a targe). But I see now the fight situation isn't given. Duel on foot? Both mounted? Cavalryman on horse and Baskethiltman on foot? Or only the weapons without a man? The fight would be boring! I try to avoid "depends on" answers and assumed a duel on foot first.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 29, 2018 8:19:44 GMT
All of them? So a 32" P1876 Vs. a Edwardian era scottish parade sword?
I vote on whoever has more skill. No real advantage given one over the other considering some cavalry sabres basically have partial baskets.
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 29, 2018 9:24:50 GMT
Just to confuse things, a basket-hilted broadsword was the typical cavalryman's weapon during most of the 17th century, though that was not his only weapon, of course. Some you might not call a basket-hilt but probably instead, a mortuary sword and similar forms but they were all straight bladed swords as opposed to curved blades.
I'd say evenly matched.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 29, 2018 9:41:32 GMT
I stand corrected, I only thought of the typical Scottish Broadsword.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 9:45:05 GMT
Baskethilt broadswords were cavalry swords, in the grand scheme of things.
Qualify baskethilt.
Full basket and half basket are terms quite apt and used forever regarding cavalry swords. The term "bars" or "branches" for cavalry swords a rather modern affectation.
Sooooooooooo, are you regarding cavalry swords vs cavalry swords?
Does your cavalry sword have have a stirrup, D or P guard. Or a half or full basket hilt. Half or full slotted hit?
Qualify the types vs very broad definitions.
What many regard as Scottish baskethilt broadswords are actually English cavalry baskethilts A distinction really only a matter of an inch or three.
If I consider what the op is trying to covey, it is only more protection the basket offers. It does not magically give the weapon more offensive benefit. Silver (infantry man) did prefer a baskethilt but of not the same definition of what a "baskethilt broadsword" conveys in general visualization.
Are you describing a Scottish baskethilt broadsword of Rob Roy? vs any cavalry sword? Is your cavalry sword a straight pallasch with a yard or more of blade or a curved sabre with 32" of blade?
Are blue gloves more effective than red gloves? Are brown and black gloves more effective than either of those?
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Post by MOK on Sept 29, 2018 11:20:41 GMT
The man with the machine gun.
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 29, 2018 12:34:53 GMT
I still say that it's an even match, something the betting person doesn't like. And as others have pointed out, the differences are not so cut and dried. For instance, let's take the Scottish infantry broadsword. In the dress regulations for the Royal Regiment of Scotland, it is referred to as "Broadsword with full basket." So that's what it is. In times past, field grade officers in Scottish infantry regiments had the same sword with a different hilt. And for a while, a simple cross hilt was used instead of the basket hilt. But these practices were not universal.
It was also fashionable for some infantry officers to carry curved sabers during the Napoleonic period rather, especially in flank companies. Likewise, the heavy cavalry sword of the period in British service had a straight blade.
None of this is helping, is it? So I fall back on an even match. But, now, if one man is mounted, it isn't even anymore. But it's fair!
In theory, if not in practice, the longer sword has the advantage. Curiously, only the standard American pattern military swords have generally been available in different blade lengths and they still are. The U.S. army officer sword is available with blades from 26" to 34" inches, a remarkable difference. WKC does not use "sword" or "saber" consistently, by the way.
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Post by mattjohn98 on Sept 29, 2018 15:44:02 GMT
I still say that it's an even match, something the betting person doesn't like. And as others have pointed out, the differences are not so cut and dried. For instance, let's take the Scottish infantry broadsword. In the dress regulations for the Royal Regiment of Scotland, it is referred to as "Broadsword with full basket." So that's what it is. In times past, field grade officers in Scottish infantry regiments had the same sword with a different hilt. And for a while, a simple cross hilt was used instead of the basket hilt. But these practices were not universal. It was also fashionable for some infantry officers to carry curved sabers during the Napoleonic period rather, especially in flank companies. Likewise, the heavy cavalry sword of the period in British service had a straight blade. None of this is helping, is it? So I fall back on an even match. But, now, if one man is mounted, it isn't even anymore. But it's fair! In theory, if not in practice, the longer sword has the advantage. Curiously, only the standard American pattern military swords have generally been available in different blade lengths and they still are. The U.S. army officer sword is available with blades from 26" to 34" inches, a remarkable difference. WKC does not use "sword" or "saber" consistently, by the way. Yes but what about weight and agility? Wouldnt the sabre be more agile.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 29, 2018 15:55:52 GMT
I don't have antiques but my Hanwei Baskethilt Broadsword and my CS 1860 (1840) are similar in handling. Afaik cavalry sabers are the heaviest sabers at all. (Whoopie, my 3000st post! I'm such a chatterbox!)
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Post by mattjohn98 on Sept 29, 2018 16:08:57 GMT
I don't have antiques but my Hanwei Baskethilt Broadsword and my CS 1860 (1840) are similar in handling. Afaik cavalry sabers are the heaviest sabers at all. (Whoopie, my 3000st post! I'm such a chatterbox!) Interesting. I guess that depends on the type. The reason I say that is because my Windlass schiavona is much heavier then my CS 1830 Napoleon sabre
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 29, 2018 16:30:01 GMT
I think that they are completely even. Just because there is so much variance. That said, let's make a scenario. It's the height of the Crimean war. News of the disastrous charge of the light brigade reaches camp where a Scottish infantry officer and a French cavalry officer are having an argument over who's nation holds more prestige. Upon hearing the news, the Scotsman is shocked and the Frenchman seized his chance to assert that his nation at least had the better cavalry. The Scottish officer rises up and challenges the French officer to a duel, both using their service weapons. (Swords hereby used are the French Mle1822 Cavalry officers sword and the Scottish regimental broadsword. For posterity let's say both men have a blade of 1x34 inches, not uncommon for cavalry officers and not unheard of for infantry officers.)
Here I think both are even. The bars of the sabre hilt offer well enough protection to the too of side of the hand, and one should always turn the edge to a parry anyways. The basket hilt offers more protection but less leeway in how to hold it and has a bit less extension in the thrust. So they cancel each other out in my mind.
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Post by howler on Sept 29, 2018 19:23:38 GMT
I'd go with basket hilt BACKSWORD over broadsword, as they were generally lighter, with double edge near the tip. So many variables regarding Saber (long infantry or light cav). Something long, light, balanced, with good hand protection. It would seem to come down to the fighters.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Sept 30, 2018 0:48:24 GMT
I'd go with basket hilt BACKSWORD over broadsword, as they were generally lighter, with double edge near the tip. Unfortunately that might be true for the modern market but they pretty much weighed about the same. I've handled some antique BH backsword that were heavier than some antique BH broadswords that I also handled. At the same time I've handled Antique BH broadswords that were heavier than some antique BH backswords. Back to the OP question: There isn't a real yes or no answer about what sword is better . It's more up to the user and their skill plus all the variables that goes with combat. For me. I like straight blades so I can cut & thrust better than curved blades. I'm also left handed so basket hilts are a lot easier to find than sabers. You also can't go by modern reproduction swords because their weight and balance is off.
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Post by howler on Oct 1, 2018 5:32:13 GMT
I'd go with basket hilt BACKSWORD over broadsword, as they were generally lighter, with double edge near the tip. Unfortunately that might be true for the modern market but they pretty much weighed about the same. I've handled some antique BH backsword that were heavier than some antique BH broadswords that I also handled. At the same time I've handled Antique BH broadswords that were heavier than some antique BH backswords. Back to the OP question: There isn't a real yes or no answer about what sword is better . It's more up to the user and their skill plus all the variables that goes with combat. For me. I like straight blades so I can cut & thrust better than curved blades. I'm also left handed so basket hilts are a lot easier to find than sabers. You also can't go by modern reproduction swords because their weight and balance is off. I was mainly going on the modern market, weight wise, (unless I heard it somewhere but don't remember) so that is interesting about historical weight.
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