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Post by mattjohn98 on Aug 9, 2018 5:04:13 GMT
If you had to choice a sword to fight a Gang of people attempting to mug you, what sword would you choice?
This needs to take into account all scenarios, except for indoors because the scenario in this case is outside.
Speed, power, agility, length and personal preference are all things that need to be mentioned.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Aug 9, 2018 5:17:19 GMT
Hmm, probably a longish, lightweight katana (very sharp). No need for a crossguard to get in the way, and no need to worry about armor (assuming this is modern). I have no training in sword use, and katanas have always have felt easiest for me to use - probably because of the two-handed hilt with the shorter (one-handed length) blade.
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Post by Verity on Aug 9, 2018 5:40:03 GMT
First, while I have SOME training I would be always nervous being outnumbered in a fight.
But... I prob also would favor a trusted lightweight katana given the types of targets (my hanwei shinto would be a good blade)...
On the other hand, giant war sword with an “oh $&&/$!” Factor also has merit... like Blackwater... 🤔
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Aug 9, 2018 6:05:43 GMT
Historically, a sword specifically for fighting numerous foes would be the two-hander or Montante. I don't have one and it is sorely limited as soon as the fighting grounds aren't completely open so I'm going with the longsword, a sligtly shorter version but still long enough to keep multiple people at bay. As important as the sword type is how you use it, there are specific techniques and it is a different skill from duelling with a single opponent. Most important: don't thrust and keep the blade (and yourself) always moving.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 9, 2018 6:39:52 GMT
Either this sword or this sword. Either my Prussian Mannschaftsabel ArtillerieSabel neuer/Art 1873-96 or my Appleseed Sharpening Sickle Sword. The Sabre has the advantage of a hard knuckle bow, being curved, and being a tried and true war sword tested by (admittedly limited) use in war. The sickle sword has the advantage of being about 5 inches shorter and being wickedly sharp. Though I have reserves about its ability in combat due to a somewhat lighter blade. I personally wouldn't thrust against multiple opponents if I had the option to cut. Imagine you run one fellow through and his mates use that opportunity to jump you. Plenty of accounts of sword thrusts getting stuck into bodies in the chronicles that D.A. Kingsley collected, but haven't seen many (or at all that I can recollect) accounts of cuts getting stuck into bodies, only that they are not all as fatal as thrusts.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Aug 9, 2018 6:57:26 GMT
My sword. :D
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 9, 2018 8:19:47 GMT
I agree with Lukas that a big twohander is probably the best weapon for this task if you have the skills to use it this way. Somewhere here I've seen a few videos of this fighting style a few weeks ago. But for me - without any skills - I would rather take a medium lenght cutting sword, that still can thrust, a modern TH katana, messer or cutlass. A slightly curved messer, medium length, two handed handle, a guard a bit more saber like than the usual broad crossguard. And the inscription: "just add idiot" with a smiley!
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Post by MOK on Aug 9, 2018 9:45:21 GMT
Mugging implies a surprise attack. So you need something that's either easy to whip out in a hurry or is carried in your hand to begin with. Many renaissance sources - and actual period practice by bodyguards and such, from what I can tell - indicate that large two-handers were ideal for holding multiple attackers at bay with their broad sweeping blows. Not the exaggeratedly ponderous overhand HULK SMASH type thing you see in movies and video games, mind you; this is how they should move IRL. So in this scenario I guess I'd want some sort of beidenhänder, montante, spadone or similar two-handed sword, something like Albion's Tyrolean or Maximilian.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 11:09:18 GMT
Something small and light that won't hinder me as I try to run away as fast as I can. Countering a swarm of opponents is 'way above my expertise level.
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Post by demonskull on Aug 9, 2018 12:48:59 GMT
I don't think even 8 lightly armed opponents would attack a man carrying a two hander. I have one but it wouldn't be my choice of a carry weapon instead, in a possible attack by multiple opponents I'd go with a medium weight hand and a half like the Hanwei Tinker or old Atrim. Both are intimidating and fast weapons not too heavy so you won't tire out if your attackers stick around for a while.
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Post by mpsmith47304 on Aug 9, 2018 12:50:30 GMT
In this abstract fantasy encounter, it's hard to say. Circumstance means everything. In general, a lone swordsman against multiple opponents (armed? unarmed?) is at a disadvantage. Skill at the chosen weapon will matter WAY more than the weapon chosen.
With those caveats...
I'd want a weapon with some reach, but versatile and fast. I'd want a sword good at cut AND thrust (even a leather jacket offers significant resistance against cutting).
For me, the ideal sword would be a type XVIIIb longsword. Plenty of reach, but relatively quick. Stiff enough with an acute point to easily thrust through clothing or even a heavy leather jacket, but with plenty of authority in the cut. The grip is long enough for easy two-handed use with some leverage, but could be used one handed in case of necessity (injury, etc).
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Post by wlewisiii on Aug 9, 2018 14:42:49 GMT
For me, it would depend on the terrain - are you in cramped space? A fast short blade like my Windlass/Cobra Kindjal or a gladius. Open things up? Then one of my sabers, especially if I could climb up even slightly to have a downward angle on the attack.
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Aug 9, 2018 16:57:23 GMT
I would want to use my ATrim Makers Mark XVIa - a great cut and thrust sword -
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Post by mattjohn98 on Aug 10, 2018 3:40:50 GMT
Nice answers. For me personally from my collection of 17 swords, this is my top five choices. This list is only based off my personal collection, however there are others I would consider (Explanation below).
1)Kriegsmesser: You get all the advantages of a Longsword, but with the cutting power of a Falchion/Katana basically. I own the Cold steel version and it is scary.
2)Longsword: If made well, it is light weight, but has good reach to do wide sweeping cuts to keep enemy at bay. I own the Cold steel Italian longsword and love it.
3)Katana: Not as long as the other two, but long enough in my opinion. Light and agile, cuts very good. I own the Hanwei practical special Katana.
4)1796 Light cavalry sabre (Or others): I have cold steel version and it impresses me every time. It has some weight forward balance, but if you have the strength it is manageable. Blade itself is not too heavy, and offers good reach.
5)Shamshir/Scimitar: I own two of these and this is probably my favorite one handed sword I own. Cuts very good but most importantly it is light weight which means it has faster recovery.
There are others that I would consider, however some I have not personally handled so I cant say for sure. Zweihänder and Nodachi are also potentially on my list, but because I have not personally had one, I can't add it with confidence. I would be concerned with the heavier swords however because I could get exhausted. Pretty much any kind of sabre is good, but I can't say for sure about Arming swords or Falchions (Possibly in my top ten choices).
Something like a Rapier would be one of the worst choices because in a outnumbered conflict, like mentioned above you should only cut, thus a blade that is Light, cuts good, and good reach is ideal which is why I've added these^ to my top five.
Some may argue that I may be going overboard with my emphases on cutting power, but when you think of it, if you have a sword that could potentially kill two or more opponents in one swing, it makes the need for faster recovery redundant...
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Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 10, 2018 21:11:37 GMT
The only thing that would matter, according to the scenario as laid out, is whether or not you had a real teacher and practiced with the sword or not prior to the fight. You CANNOT retroactively train AFTER you become engaged in combat, nor can you post engagement select your weapon according to the situation- you have what you have on you at the time the incident starts. So with that in mind, my answer is that "it doesn't matter what kind of sword". Because you are either skilled with it and take out a gang of punks, or you are killed because you failed to train.
Pick a sword type of your choosing and get good with that one. Everything else will work itself out.
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Post by Turok on Aug 12, 2018 6:16:46 GMT
It's not a sword but I prefer a bowie knife! Just look up Jim Bowie and the infamous Sandbar Fight!
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Aug 12, 2018 6:41:45 GMT
The only thing that would matter, according to the scenario as laid out, is whether or not you had a real teacher and practiced with the sword or not prior to the fight. You CANNOT retroactively train AFTER you become engaged in combat, nor can you post engagement select your weapon according to the situation- you have what you have on you at the time the incident starts. So with that in mind, my answer is that "it doesn't matter what kind of sword". Because you are either skilled with it and take out a gang of punks, or you are killed because you failed to train. Pick a sword type of your choosing and get good with that one. Everything else will work itself out. I disagree. A trained person isn't always necessarily better than an untrained person. Fighting is fighting, armed or unarmed. It really depends how good a person is at dealing with dangerous conflict. Some people are just good at it, even if they never trained. And some are terrible, despite years of training. Not to mention that dealing with a surprise attack from a group isn't something anything in a sword training situation ever trains people for. Having buddies hesitantly attack you with foam/blunt swords in a gym will never be like protecting yourself from a group of people who want to kill you, in or outside a building. I am not saying training wouldn't be a portion of the factor in your survival against a group of hostiles, but I am definitely saying it isn't the final determining factor. Not by a long shot. This is just a lie that martial artists tell themselves. But training and tactics wasn't the original topic, rather, it was what sword would be most ideal for you. And to answer that, mine would be my sword of danu. Short enough to swing indoors, and the tip is a wicked stabber. Along with the weight of it, it would be most ideal if I could muster the aggression behind it and muster the intent to use it. My Condor Kukri Machete or my Kukri House Ex Ghurka would be my second choices, depending on where I am when this hypothetically happens. I am hoping these guys are bumbling buffoons though, cause people who know what they are doing are a forced to be reckoned with
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 12, 2018 7:17:32 GMT
I'm not sure if a rapier is so bad in such a situation, when paired with a main gauche. Ok, it's a thrusting weapon, but a heavy rapier can slice too, a whip with a swung 1m long sharp blade tip section isn't fun. The reach can keep the others at distance. And if one gets inside or back of you there still is a mean short sword. All for one and two for all!
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Post by elbrittania39 on Aug 12, 2018 7:30:41 GMT
Something with reach that could offend against multiple targets. So that tosses out rapier which is usually a good civilian defense choice. Im also not gonna factor in the swords I'm personally skilled with cause then there are only like two answers lol.
I'm gonna have to say Kriegsmesser or Longsword. I think they would both do the job of keeping people at bay with long sweeping cuts. A katana I could see too, but it isnt gonna have the same reach which can be a big hindrance if reach is gonna be a big thing you can exploit.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 12, 2018 15:05:06 GMT
The only thing that would matter, according to the scenario as laid out, is whether or not you had a real teacher and practiced with the sword or not prior to the fight. You CANNOT retroactively train AFTER you become engaged in combat, nor can you post engagement select your weapon according to the situation- you have what you have on you at the time the incident starts. So with that in mind, my answer is that "it doesn't matter what kind of sword". Because you are either skilled with it and take out a gang of punks, or you are killed because you failed to train. Pick a sword type of your choosing and get good with that one. Everything else will work itself out. I disagree. A trained person isn't always necessarily better than an untrained person. Fighting is fighting, armed or unarmed. ...... I disagree with your disagreement- but in a completely respectful way. You fight as you train, therefore you should train as you fight. No training means your fighting will be crude and unskilled and vastly increase the probability of losing the fight. Magic fighting skills do not appear out of thin air at the time of conflict. Fighting is NOT "fighting" when the skill levels are totally different- especially when it comes to weapons. Swords take a LOT of practice, sparring, training, practices, more sparring, and more training than most other weapons. So if "fighting is fighting", then why concern yourself with what type of weapon to use since logically a weapon is also just a weapon? Just buy a samurai sword from the gift shop and train with it by sitting on the sofa wacthing the "7 Samurai" 3 times in a row. Or buy a gun and never fire it at the range. Sounds like a solid plan to me. No need to bother studying and practicing when it doesn't make any difference, right? A gang of muggers would be no problem at all. No, again I very respectfully disagree with your disagreement. I will trust my training over trusting to luck any day of the week. Because "hope" is not a plan- NOW is the time to start learning and training.
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