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Gemei?
Jun 26, 2018 0:08:23 GMT
Post by Onimusha on Jun 26, 2018 0:08:23 GMT
I was looking at some blades from the Ebay seller "Komonjo". The pictures were beautiful, and they're not bid up very high, so I decided to do some research on them. I remembered seing some of these blades for sale here, so I did a forum search.
The word "Gemei" keeps popping up in reference to them. I can't seem to find a definition for that word anywhere. Can someone please explain what it means?
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Gemei?
Jun 26, 2018 0:57:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by randomnobody on Jun 26, 2018 0:57:18 GMT
You're looking for "gimei" which means, basically, artificial signature. Could be a smith forging another smith's signature to try to make their swords look/sell better, could be a later attribution carved by an appraiser, could be anything. What it means, though, is either the signature has not been/cannot be verified, or has been proven to be a forgery. That's not to say the blade in question is necessarily a bad or poorly-made blade, but it's like if I splashed some paint on a canvas and copied the signature of a famous abstract artist, then tried to pass it off as their work. Some might argue the painting itself has its own value, but it's not nearly as valuable as a painting actually by that artist, and actually loses value by virtue of being a fraud. Or maybe I painted something and a hundred years later an art historian mistakenly attributes it to Salvador Dali and adds a copy of his signature in an effort to mark their attribution. They're wrong, but maybe they don't know that. Up to you whether these swords have any value. At the least, they're still nihonto. They're just not Masamune, despite the signature saying so. Edit: Haven't read the full article, but this seems like a fair break-down. yuhindo.com/ha/gimei/
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Gemei?
Jun 26, 2018 1:55:36 GMT
Post by RufusScorpius on Jun 26, 2018 1:55:36 GMT
From what I gather from the linked article, a Gimei sword is basically a fake. It most likely is a modern blade with a signature of a famous smith stamped on it. Or not. It could be an original with a signature added later, or not. It may be an authentic sword, worth more if the signature was removed, or if you remove the signature it may destroy valuable historic evidence of a swordmaker, or not.
What it amounts to is that you are buying a sword that you know is fake. It's either totally fake, or real with a fake signature. If it's the latter, then it's really worth some money. If the former, then it's junk. You won't really find out how fake it is until you buy it. Or not.
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Gemei?
Jun 26, 2018 2:07:40 GMT
Post by zabazagobo on Jun 26, 2018 2:07:40 GMT
Randomnobody has the right of it. The short version is that such blades have a signature which cannot be proven to be correct. Whether or not they are forgeries is case dependent. I remember hearing something about smiths making blades for practice/profit and off loading them as unsigned or gimei in order to surpass the very limiting production quota imposed upon them by the Japanese authorities. I've heard some gimei blades as being pretty solid despite being of undiscernable origin; so long as they're affordable, odds are they're far from a bad deal.
That's all assuming it's of Japanese make. Some folks elsewhere make blades and pass them off as nihonto and those should be avoided. Nothing wrong with katanas made outside of Japan, but if the seller lies about their origin it doesn't bode well for the integrity of the sword.
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Gemei?
Jun 27, 2018 0:16:36 GMT
Post by vermithrax on Jun 27, 2018 0:16:36 GMT
You're looking for "gimei" which means, basically, artificial signature. Could be a smith forging another smith's signature to try to make their swords look/sell better, could be a later attribution carved by an appraiser, could be anything. What it means, though, is either the signature has not been/cannot be verified, or has been proven to be a forgery. That's not to say the blade in question is necessarily a bad or poorly-made blade, but it's like if I splashed some paint on a canvas and copied the signature of a famous abstract artist, then tried to pass it off as their work. Some might argue the painting itself has its own value, but it's not nearly as valuable as a painting actually by that artist, and actually loses value by virtue of being a fraud. Or maybe I painted something and a hundred years later an art historian mistakenly attributes it to Salvador Dali and adds a copy of his signature in an effort to mark their attribution. They're wrong, but maybe they don't know that. Up to you whether these swords have any value. At the least, they're still nihonto. They're just not Masamune, despite the signature saying so. Edit: Haven't read the full article, but this seems like a fair break-down. yuhindo.com/ha/gimei/This is correct. That seller does have reasonable modern blades for reasonable prices though. They are not antique.
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Gemei?
Jun 27, 2018 4:19:36 GMT
Post by treeslicer on Jun 27, 2018 4:19:36 GMT
My view on gimei/mumei blades is that anything (like mei irregularities,scratches, minor rust, and ware) that lowers the price of an otherwise decent (i.e., usable as a tool for practicing battojutsu and producing human sashimi) nihonto that I'm trying to buy, is good, and be damned to what mere collectors think. Remember that we're talking about a real, absolutely traditionally made, tamahagane, probably laminated, sword. Look at the prices for Chinese replicas that come even close to that. Any time I can get a really decent nihonto that fills some requirement of mine, especially a koto, for under $1000 USD (much less what some eBay sellers, even in Japan, let them go for), I could care less what might or might not be tattooed on its tail. The blade itself is what matters, and it radiates its own authenticity, for those who can read it. Another issue, strictly on gimei blades, and touched on in the blog linked above, is that the majority of people who kantei blades can't be expected to know what the mei of all the 13,000 or so historically recognized Japanese smiths actually look like. I walked off with a beautiful first generation Ujinobu katateuchi for peanuts a couple of years ago, because the folks I was bidding against only knew from the third-generation Momoyama guy, and weren't looking for anything older and less "refined" once they read the mei. When I ran it past a buddy who specializes in such obscurities, he confirmed what I'd seen in it. Sometimes the usual run of cognoscenti are wrong.
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Gemei?
Jun 27, 2018 7:59:25 GMT
Post by Richard Arias on Jun 27, 2018 7:59:25 GMT
I was looking at some blades from the Ebay seller "Komonjo". The pictures were beautiful, and they're not bid up very high, so I decided to do some research on them. I remembered seing some of these blades for sale here, so I did a forum search. The word "Gemei" keeps popping up in reference to them. I can't seem to find a definition for that word anywhere. Can someone please explain what it means? Personally I have seen no real concrete proof they are Japanese. Quality wise they look like Chinese Tamahagane. A lot of his blades are massive well beyond the length of blades intent for Martial Arts use. Usually flawed cosmetically. And something to think about is if there are flaws visible what might be deeper in that can't be seen... people buy them but they end up back for sale on this form or eBay usually. I have yet to see any of Komonjo's blades go through serious testing. They look like the real deal to the untrained eye. If you just want to fool people then these will do that. But honestly some Chinese made blades can do that for less work. Your going to pay more to have the mounts done to have a use able sword and By then you still have a gang question mark.
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