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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2008 8:42:38 GMT
well i built my 4th forge and it works great thanx for the help!!!! now i have a few other things i would like to ask... how would someone go about bluing a knife? on to polishing stones and sharpeners... whats the difference? what makes a good sharpening stone and a good polisher? i know that when polishing a katana it sharpens it as well, does that mean that a good sharpening stone can be used as a polishing stone?
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jun 26, 2008 11:33:33 GMT
Hey DS. Hows it all going. Show us your forge.
On Hot Bluing: I did some experiments to see when a piece took each colour. Bear in mind that oven thermostats would vary wildly. In MY oven I get: Gold at 210C Purple at 225C Blue at 240C Im sure a quick google would convert that for you imperial stormtroopers. I left each temp for 20 minutes to make sure that they soaked through and had settled.
On Cold Bluing: Buy some Birchwood and Casey Perma Blue. Dab on a rag, wipe, repeat. Wash down as soon as possible and dry. Rub oil into it vigorously ASAP.
I know nothing of kats or stones. Sorry bud. Go make blades...
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jun 26, 2008 16:24:52 GMT
While polishing, you shave off tiny amounts of metal due to the abrasive action of the polish, thus making the blade thinner. This will make the edge feel sharper.
Good sharpening stones include carburundum stones, "arkansas stones" and other such items. The commonly available sharpening stones you can buy at any supermarket will do just fine. Just beware that you never use water on an oilstone, and never use oil on a waterstone.
As for polishing stones, don't bother! Just use wet or dry sandpaper in gradually finer grits, then buff with a buffing machine. Other than to be really traditional, there is no point polishing "the old fashioned way". You can emulate the look of traditional Japanese waterstone polishing quite well using an orbital sander.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2008 16:51:21 GMT
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Post by Dan Davis on Jun 27, 2008 12:02:09 GMT
Sharpening stones (hard arkansas, ceramic, diamond, steels, etc.) have one thing in common: they are hard and wear away very slowly.
Polishing stones (carborundum, water stones, wet/dry papers, etc.) have one thing in common: they are soft and wear away quickly.
Sharpening stones are extremely hard to use when shaping a blade but work well when setting the final edge.
Polishing stones are DESIGNED for use when shaping a blade and wear quickly, developing a "slurry" of loose abrasive that cuts away the steel smoothly and quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2008 13:03:16 GMT
Ok I may have made the wrong choice. I purchased a water stone with a 250 grit stone on one side and a 1000 grit stone on the other. How fast does a water stone wear? Will I have to worry about getting another one in a month or two if I use the current one often? Does a worn Stone affect its sharpening capabilities?
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jun 27, 2008 20:37:51 GMT
My water stone wears quite slowly. It is around the same grits you have specified (mine is 240 and 1000). A worn stone shouldnt cut any worse, so long as it isnt clogged with metal and rubbed off stone, and so long as it isnt worn into a poor shape. Wash it now and then and It'll be fine. I don't recommend using solvents on water stones.
You also might want to check as to whether your stone is the sort that needs permanent soaking or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2008 2:24:44 GMT
yea nothing but water touches this stone
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Post by Dan Davis on Jun 28, 2008 12:03:03 GMT
You have to realize that when I said "quickly" I was speaking in relative terms; one of those 250/1000 stones will last through about 10 tanto or 5-6 swords.
On the other hand I have had my arkansas stones for decades and I just gave away a steel that is 70 years old and still works just fine.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jun 28, 2008 21:20:03 GMT
I recently came across a sharpening steel in my grandfather's old toolbox that must be at least 60-70 years old. It looks good as new. It might just be barely used, though. I daresay I'll put some use on it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2008 21:25:00 GMT
when u say it will last 10 tantos do u mean polish and sharpen or just putting an edge on it?
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Post by Dan Davis on Jul 3, 2008 21:40:57 GMT
I'm talking shaping from rough grind after heat treat to the point where finer stones become necessary.
1000 grit is far too coarse for polishing/touching up the edge of a tanto; nothing less than 4000 grit for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2008 4:09:36 GMT
that sounds like a mirror finish
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jul 4, 2008 20:53:08 GMT
Wow, Dan. That is pushing the limits of fineness, surely? When polishing my first two knives, I only went to 1000 grit before buffing on a cotton wheel charged with stainless buffing compound, and I got a flawless mirror shine. I have since moved on to polishing to two thousand grit before buffing, as it means I spend less time buffing.
Or were you on about grits to use when sharpening?
Cos with sharpening, I have started forming the feather of the edge with the coarse 250 grit side of my stone, then honed it on the thousand grit side before stropping with an oil and jewellers rouge slurry on a leather strop. Going to 4000 grit sounds like overkill when you can remove the nasty microscopic honing burrs with a strop...
What are your opinions on this?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2008 21:13:12 GMT
SHEEEEIT, when talking straight razors 4000 grit is COARSE.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2008 22:58:20 GMT
yes but straight razors dont make much of a knife now do they? i have found that my 1000 grit stone gets it plenty sharp then my leather strap makes it look pretty. im just hoping that my stone will last long enough to make it worth the 30 bucks i spent on it. i dont even thin i will use the 250 side of my water stone because i have a store baught oil stone with the low grits.
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Post by Dan Davis on Jul 4, 2008 23:43:01 GMT
I believe we are talking about two different types of polishing here, and that created the confusion.
I am talking about using the stones to polish a Japanese-styled blade. Using a strop/buff/polishing wheel has the effect of burnishing the steel, creating a mirror polish but also closing the grain. By contrast, polishing using waterstones or wet papers refines the steel but leaves the grain open, allowing for the structure of the steel to show through.
On a wesatern style blade I run up through 400 grit using my power grinders, then go to 600/1000/1200 by hand and buff using white rouge. totally different process.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jul 5, 2008 21:18:54 GMT
I see. Thanks for the clarification.
I have some white rouge, but prefer the stanless compound.
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