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Post by jmmjordan on Apr 3, 2018 2:18:38 GMT
This is my first time posting here so I hope I am doing this right and in the correct part of the forum.
I am searching for a sort of holy grail of a sharp longsword for myself. What I am looking for is something like the blackfencer standard longsword waster. Some of the specs are not absolutely necessary but the length of blade and handle are definitely a must and the point of balance would be a definite second in importance. Also, if there was one that had a little more of an emphasis on thrusting that would probably help with the center of balance.
Anyway, the specs on the waster are as follows:
Blade Length: 37.4 in / 95 cm. <------- essential Ricasso Width: 2 in / 5 cm Point Width: 1 in / 2.5 cm Total Length: 49.2 in / 125 cm <-------- essential Point of Balance: 2.4 in / 6 cm. <-------- of secondary importance but if it can be that, I would be in heaven. Weight: 2.65 lbs / 1200 g (this is not likely going to happen!)
Hoping this is correct and in the right place and that I can get some help with this.
-Joseph
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 3, 2018 2:34:19 GMT
The weight for a sword that large is not likely...at least for a usable sword. Maybe an estoc...but honestly real swords are gonna weight more that wasters. The balance once again, unless you are looking at an estoc will probably be further up...and as a cutting capable sword, you will WANT it to be further up generally speaking. A sword with a PoB that close to the hilt will either have an extreme tapering of some sort or heavy fitting. Too heavy of a fitting for the blade will screw up your harmonics and be a bad sword. That said, the sword closest to what you want I know of is the Albion Munich. Here are the stats on it...
Munich with Wire Wrap Specifications Total length: 48.5" (123.2 cm) Blade length: 37.25" (94.6 cm) Blade width at base: 1.54" (3.9 cm) CoG: 4.5" (11.43 cm) CoP: 22.5" (57.2 cm) Weight: 3 lbs 2.8 oz (1.440 kg)
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Post by Faldarin on Apr 3, 2018 2:41:22 GMT
Welcome jmmjordan - That's a very specific listing for a sword there. As coldnapalm said - most blades of that length are going to be around 3 lb.+. Also, a lot of training wasters are going to have much longer grips than most sharps (I know my Blackfencer does - I probably have a very similar one to you), and the point of balance is probably going to be around 3 or 4 inches at least for most blades of that length. Even the Munic suggested by cold is on the long end of things for production swords. Did you have a particular budget? I've seen some ATrims that get near the specs you're looking for. Near. For production swords though, that might be more difficult, I have a couple ideas, but I'll have to look them up tomorrow. Tired now, and work early.
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Post by jmmjordan on Apr 3, 2018 3:00:58 GMT
Thank you for your help! I am actually resigning myself to the fact that I will have to make huge concessions or go big. I was hoping for a budget of $400-$500. So I am leaning toward a Del Tin hand-and-a-half.
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 3, 2018 3:21:12 GMT
You mean the gothic one? I held that before and I was pretty meh about it. It feels heavy and sluggish...despite the low low weight and close PoB. It also does not cut worth a damn even after putting a razor's edge on it. I mean it will stab pretty well...but it still feels sluggish to me. Hence why I suggest the munich over the similar and cheaper looking del tin. At that price range, may I suggest getting maybe a hanwei tinker longsword bare blade and having a cutler fit it to your desire? You should be able to get a cutler to do a decent hilt for 3-400 dollars. I recommend Castille Armoury if you want to go that way. castillearmory.com/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 9:16:20 GMT
I have owned a Del Tin 5157 for many years. I traded into it from someone ordering direct from Fulvio and came to him with a pretty tight grind with a <1mm edge, then sharpened. My first cutting with it ended up cutting empty 2 litre and empty gallon jugs. I was actually favorably impressed at the time. This after receiving and using some A&A and ATrim swords. The 5157 is slightly longer but a pound lighter than the A&A German Bastard sword. (just a note that the Del Tin 2160 on our left in this photo is a real beast and way heavy like the A&A) There are a few things about the 5157 folk complain about. Little distal taper (to me, the sword handles as quite neutral). Not a fantastic cutter. I have had no complaint there but would avoid chopping wood, as this likely has a extended tang. The wire gets a bit squirmy and one can rotate the winds. For years, I simply started a session by wringing the wire to its tight position. Later I went ahead and spot glued it while wound up. The 5157 is felt a little floppy to some. The 5155 would be less so and perhaps the better buy if pulling the trigger. I'm a tall guy and have still always noticed its length at over 50". Christian Tobler and others like the 5157 for HEMA but there have been more and more options as the years go by. So, I dunno, I have owned it for 15 years now and if/when I start dumping my Euro reproductions, the 5157 would be amongst the last to go.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 3, 2018 9:27:03 GMT
You can take a look at the Darksword Armory DSA Danish Two Handed Sword XVIIIe. It's long but relative light due to a relative thin blade. But a bit of a fantasy longsword.
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 3, 2018 10:46:00 GMT
You can take a look at the Darksword Armory DSA Danish Two Handed Sword XVIIIe. It's long but relative light due to a relative thin blade. But a bit of a fantasy longsword. Oh dear god not that one. That one is even worse than the del tin. I have never seen a sword that light and with a PoB that close feel so damn clumsy. The stats on the paper is only a part of what makes a sword feel good in your hands. But as edelweiss as shown, what one person likes or not is different from person to person.
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Post by Faldarin on Apr 3, 2018 12:17:47 GMT
If you can live with a 34" blade, but absolutely need the long grip, I would second getting a Hanwei-Tinker longsword bare blade and buying fittings/getting them fitted by a professional. It'll still likely come out under your budget. The H/T is a beautifully performing longsword.
I'd say if you absolutely need the blade length, but can sacrifice quite a bit on grip length, the Del Tin is close in stats to what you want. I've not handled one personally though.
Good luck with your search!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 13:52:40 GMT
I will add that the Del Tin wire is quite comfy, as ground flat and what I see on many goes of the theme as not flattened. That may not seem a big deal but it is kind of like handling a well done Japanese style wrap in real silk vs the lumpy cotton and synthetics found on a lot of the examples out there. Just a sense of Ah....comfy vs a coarser wire wrap. Doing two winds side by side makes for a nice herringbone visual.
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Post by jmmjordan on Apr 3, 2018 14:54:25 GMT
Thank you everyone for all the advice and comments. But has anyone had any experience with this one from del tin: Del Tin Hand And A Half Sword - Brown - DT5140BRAnd also, how is the steel they use? Is it steel that will handle abuse and last a long time?
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Post by leviathansteak on Apr 3, 2018 15:03:52 GMT
Thank you everyone for all the advice and comments. But has anyone had any experience with this one from del tin: Del Tin Hand And A Half Sword - Brown - DT5140BRAnd also, how is the steel they use? Is it steel that will handle abuse and last a long time? I used to own a sword of that model. A bit hefty but manageable. Very stiff blade and acute point - a damn good anti armour blade. The problem is that the blade cross section is rather thick near the edge and sharpening it gives less than ideal cutting performance because of this. The steel quality is good as far as i can tell. I smashed a sharpened del tin blade into a metal bedframe once and honestly could not find any dulling of the edge at all Mine had an additional problem of clicking sounds from the tang during use. Solved by pouring glue down the fullers.
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Post by Faldarin on Apr 3, 2018 15:22:18 GMT
It's hefty, that's for sure - but I do own a Del Tin - and the steel they use is pretty impressive. I've heard that sometimes they have problems with grip construction... but that's the only issues I've heard really about Del Tin other than their thick edges and sometimes unwieldy movement. The actual blade itself will probably stand up to most abuse that you'd throw at it, but I wouldn't purposefully abuse it like hitting metal or fully grown trees or such, obviously, like any sword.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 15:36:25 GMT
A friend ground down a 5140 quite a bit and turned it into a pretty scary needle.
Del Tin uses the same 6150 steel A&A and Albion use. As far as durability in abusive use, I guess it depends on what you mean to do with it. The standard 2mm+ edges are not really suited to safe use in bouting unless well fitted with padding or more armour, even with the tip capped but Del Tin had/has long been the go to maker for re-enactors. The blade profile of the 5140 does not cater to cutting, if that is a concern and as a sword for bouting, a bit dangerous (stiffness). I am sure it would do ok for pell work but as with all of the long Del Tin hilts, I would avoid a lot of heavy dead blows. The tangs are typically the weak spot.
There are feders much more suited for bouting. Wood wasters actually the better bet for long term pell work. I would save the pretties and cutters for those purposes. Sharps or near sharp, even in solo forms need strict attention. I have the scars to prove it.
Tobler and others do suit up and bout with feders
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 3, 2018 16:24:43 GMT
Del tins are tough. I've had mine for decades and it held up fine other than I need to re-compress the hilt once. No experience with the one you are looking for, but man is that on the heavy side for a longsword...but as far as toughness goes, yeah you should be fine with a del tin.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 3, 2018 16:48:20 GMT
I've never owned the del tin, but have had more than a passing interest in it. However, I have owned the Albion Munich and I can tell you its worth every penny spent on it. It was an exceptional sword in every respect.
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 3, 2018 18:31:38 GMT
If you can live with a 34" blade, but absolutely need the long grip, I would second getting a Hanwei-Tinker longsword bare blade and buying fittings/getting them fitted by a professional. It'll still likely come out under your budget. The H/T is a beautifully performing longsword. I'd say if you absolutely need the blade length, but can sacrifice quite a bit on grip length, the Del Tin is close in stats to what you want. I've not handled one personally though. Good luck with your search! The longsword is 36 inch blade. The bastard is 34. Since he wants a long handle, he should get the longsword anyways.
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Post by Faldarin on Apr 3, 2018 19:50:53 GMT
If you can live with a 34" blade, but absolutely need the long grip, I would second getting a Hanwei-Tinker longsword bare blade and buying fittings/getting them fitted by a professional. It'll still likely come out under your budget. The H/T is a beautifully performing longsword. I'd say if you absolutely need the blade length, but can sacrifice quite a bit on grip length, the Del Tin is close in stats to what you want. I've not handled one personally though. Good luck with your search! The longsword is 36 inch blade. The bastard is 34. Since he wants a long handle, he should get the longsword anyways. Hrmmm. KoA, CAS, and the SBG store all have it listed as a 35" blade. I know mine was a bit shy of that. The blade is really not that much longer than the bastard. The grip was really the point I was making. It's one of the only production swords with that extreme grip length in his price range.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Apr 3, 2018 20:50:36 GMT
I can't think of any production sword other than the Albion Munich that would fit your bill. I have one, it's a truly wonderful sword. And honestly, if you're really going for "personal holy grain", anything cheaper probably isn't going to cut it.
As far as the Del Tin goes... Bryan Heff has one. I think he quite likes it.
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Post by Bryan Heff on Apr 3, 2018 21:08:34 GMT
I do. I like mine a lot As others have mentioned though it's got some heft to it but I don't find it "unweildy" and it cut way better than I expected it to. When it comes to a long sword I personally put them in two categories, a civilian type dueling longsword or a true Battlefield war sword to be used against armored opponents. I would certainly put this sword in the latter category. It's definitely tough and absolutely stiff. I'm not a practitioner of European historical fencing so my perspective does not take into consideration what those folks might be looking for in a longsword specifically, but I personally like mine a lot
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