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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 5, 2018 2:06:07 GMT
"a bunch of smiths that make dozens if not hundreds of swords every year" * chinese symbols have been spotted on tangs and/or wooden grip parts I'm one of the guys that spotted the Chinese symbol on a test feeder they gave my club and made a youtube video I live in a neighborhood that's 85% Asias, mostly first generation Chinese, and they identified the symbol as "wood", which is hat they use for the grip core. These were native speakers and readers, not someone who learned the language from Duolingo.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 5, 2018 2:11:08 GMT
Arms and Armor is a pretty reasonable maker that will do custom work. They made me a custom piece a few years ago and it was a very positive experience. A&A does, in my opinion, outstanding custom work for the prices they charge. If going that route I highly recommend them.
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 5, 2018 6:20:08 GMT
* chinese symbols have been spotted on tangs and/or wooden grip parts I'm one of the guys that spotted the Chinese symbol on a test feeder they gave my club and made a youtube video I live in a neighborhood that's 85% Asias, mostly first generation Chinese, and they identified the symbol as "wood", which is hat they use for the grip core. These were native speakers and readers, not someone who learned the language from Duolingo. I mean if the symbol is just wood on wood, it could just be that they source the wood for the wood cores from china. Like I'm not exactly a fan of DSA here, but having a wood symbol on wood is hardly what I would consider proof that they don't make their swords in Canada.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 12:33:13 GMT
I'm one of the guys that spotted the Chinese symbol on a test feeder they gave my club and made a youtube video I live in a neighborhood that's 85% Asias, mostly first generation Chinese, and they identified the symbol as "wood", which is hat they use for the grip core. These were native speakers and readers, not someone who learned the language from Duolingo. I mean if the symbol is just wood on wood, it could just be that they source the wood for the wood cores from china. Like I'm not exactly a fan of DSA here, but having a wood symbol on wood is hardly what I would consider proof that they don't make their swords in Canada. Hey, we as customers shouldnt have to prove anything - THEY have to proove where their swords are made, if WE want to know it! And HOW they are constructed, if WE want to know it! And all we get from one year to another is BS roundabouts and lame excuses/explanations!!! They even stated those chinese symbols to be a "signature" from one of their employees! Ah, man, we havent scratched half of the paranormal activities around this company...
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Apr 5, 2018 13:04:13 GMT
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 5, 2018 13:49:46 GMT
Hey, we as customers shouldnt have to prove anything - THEY have to proove where their swords are made, if WE want to know it! And HOW they are constructed, if WE want to know it! And all we get from one year to another is BS roundabouts and lame excuses/explanations!!! They even stated those chinese symbols to be a "signature" from one of their employees! Ah, man, we havent scratched half of the paranormal activities around this company... Look, I ain't saying that they ain't shady as all hell. They even flat out admitted that they stole a design from a custom swordsmith for one of their swords when they were accused of stealing a design off Albion. And the funny thing was, the changes they made to the historical original could have all been easily explained away as cost cutting measures which made it look like the Albion sword. But Eyal being Eyal, went on a tirade and said that one of their other sword was a custom piece somebody asked for based on a custom design by a swordsmith in LA (i believe), which is dubious and unethical to begin with, and than used that to make a production sword...which is flat out stealing. There is so much wrong with DSA, you don't even need to go into suspected accusations like a wooden core have a Chinese symbol for wood on it. And the fact that their products are basically junk in the hand should pretty much be the be all end all of why you should spend money elsewhere if you want a proper sword. Because there are plenty of other companies who gives you better swords for half the price. And if you MUST have something made in western world...good news, Del Tin from Europe costs as much as DSA does. And compared to their elite lines you have A&A, Albion, Lockwood, Atrim and custom options that will blow the the quality of those swords out of the water with sword that actually feel proper for their type.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 5, 2018 15:36:41 GMT
I'm one of the guys that spotted the Chinese symbol on a test feeder they gave my club and made a youtube video I live in a neighborhood that's 85% Asias, mostly first generation Chinese, and they identified the symbol as "wood", which is hat they use for the grip core. These were native speakers and readers, not someone who learned the language from Duolingo. I mean if the symbol is just wood on wood, it could just be that they source the wood for the wood cores from china. Like I'm not exactly a fan of DSA here, but having a wood symbol on wood is hardly what I would consider proof that they don't make their swords in Canada. The symbol wasn't on the inside of the grip core, it was on the metal tang of the blade under the grip. You can only see it when you disassemble the sword.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 5, 2018 16:08:51 GMT
The whole DSA thing really is a shame. There's nothing wrong with sourcing your blades from India or China, but there is when you claim to forge them yourselves and refuse to answer questions asked by customers and well established and reputable smiths. It also doesn't help when your "forge" pictures have one small forge and a ton of sword parts in shrink wrapped boxes. Whatever.
Personally, I'd have no problem paying $500 or so for a sword and scabbard package with a Chinese sourced blade.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 16:15:36 GMT
The whole DSA thing really is a shame. There's nothing wrong with sourcing your blades from India or China, but there is when you claim to forge them yourselves and refuse to answer questions asked by customers and well established and reputable smiths. It also doesn't help when your "forge" pictures have one small forge and a ton of sword parts in shrink wrapped boxes. Whatever. Personally, I'd have no problem paying $500 or so for a sword and scabbard package with a Chinese sourced blade. Exactly. The problem isnt the source of their blades; its the way they "advertise" their stuff - and sticking to it! One of my best swords is my Huawei Jian, and i have some Windlass models which have extremely well made and designed blade geometry (German Bastard, Mercenary).
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Apr 5, 2018 17:22:27 GMT
I love my Windlass GBS. It's a tad heavy for it's size, but it packs a punch. MRL does bang-up sharpening!
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 5, 2018 17:50:15 GMT
The whole DSA thing really is a shame. There's nothing wrong with sourcing your blades from India or China, but there is when you claim to forge them yourselves and refuse to answer questions asked by customers and well established and reputable smiths. It also doesn't help when your "forge" pictures have one small forge and a ton of sword parts in shrink wrapped boxes. Whatever. Personally, I'd have no problem paying $500 or so for a sword and scabbard package with a Chinese sourced blade. Okay so the wood symbol on the tang is odd...and more likely points to them outsourcing parts. As for their one small forge...remember that for YEARS they didn't even show off that one tiny forge. They just showed off people just assembling swords or that stupid video of a guy hammering at an anvil on a cold piece of steel. And their assertion that their swords are historically accurate for many years was/is absurd. And there is a video of them doing a flex test on what should be a DH blade if their advertising is to be believed. But the biggest issue is that they basically HAVE to lie about their products because what you get ain't worth what they charge. A VA Chinese sourced sword and scabbard set up is worth 500 bucks. Their swords act like a sword should. DSA swords do not. And that is their main problem. Their products ain't worth the price they charge and the only way that can try and squeeze some extra customers into it is with their rather dubious advertising. And flat out stealing of other maker's design. And cutting corners pretty much everywhere they can (like seriously, they either take 2 min on that 30 dollar sharpening job or we are to believe that people who can forge and grind a sword blade can't put a better edge than they do in half an hour of work).
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Apr 6, 2018 4:18:41 GMT
Instead of playing keyboard warriors why don't you go check them out. They say right on their website that anyone is welcomed to a tour of their operation, you just have to make an appointment. I'm sure we have some members here who live close enough or may be visiting the area to take a tour. As for the forges I've seen at least two different ones in their videos.
As for their Elite line I'm not going to make any comments because I don't own any and have never seen or handed any. I work on fact not hearsay.
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 6, 2018 6:52:01 GMT
Instead of playing keyboard warriors why don't you go check them out. They say right on their website that anyone is welcomed to a tour of their operation, you just have to make an appointment. I'm sure we have some members here who live close enough or may be visiting the area to take a tour. As for the forges I've seen at least two different ones in their videos. As for their Elite line I'm not going to make any comments because I don't own any and have never seen or handed any. I work on fact not hearsay. People have. And the reports are that they are 1) very restricted in what they see and 2) see nothing that could produce what they claim. What is reported to be seen is a pretty large amount of items for sword assembly...which is what we assume they do.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 7, 2018 0:02:16 GMT
Instead of playing keyboard warriors why don't you go check them out. They say right on their website that anyone is welcomed to a tour of their operation, you just have to make an appointment. I'm sure we have some members here who live close enough or may be visiting the area to take a tour. As for the forges I've seen at least two different ones in their videos. As for their Elite line I'm not going to make any comments because I don't own any and have never seen or handed any. I work on fact not hearsay. You must be pretty new here. It has been done, over and over again, with the same results. And as for the forges, there's only one and its not nearly big enough to handle a quarter of the volume they claim to do. So either they're selling one sword a month or they're outsourcing the blades and use the one forge for prototyping. Which makes more sense?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2018 1:20:40 GMT
It might be easier to just not participate in discussions regarding DSA. I am resisting but falling into the cess pool again. Anyone that chooses to believe Eyal's claims and ad copy are welcome to but even just the visual truths are there to see in plain sight.
Let the ignorant lead the ignorant and those that know just watch the spectacle.
A case in point and I guess I could ask in the associated thread but Eyal could answer it here if he chooses to. I know he reads DSA threads, so there is no reason to think he won't read this. I read of an extensive visit with some museums in Italy, with hundreds(?) of images forthcoming on a separate page. The effort is laudable and kudos for sharing Eyal. In your post, you mention being very impressed with a particular sidesword. Did you have a chance to handle the sword and do a thorough detail of the measurements? Were you able to network with any of the museums to do so for any item? If so, take associated pictures of such examinations? If so, would you find it unusual that smiths such as Peter Johnsnon, Kevin Cashen, Eric McHugh and others have shared such visits openly and publicly (with attendant photography)? Or, was your trip and visits much more informal and the photography simply snapshots from which one hopes to glean enough information to reproduce something in the general ballpark?
So, there are four or five very general and cordial questions Eyal is welcome to respond here, in the recent thread he began, or on the page he projects to publish. No need to be bashful.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 8, 2018 17:48:45 GMT
Not about DSA as I'm pretty much done arguing anything about production swords. But as it was asked where to get custom swords for 1500-2000$ range there are dozens of European smiths that can produce you stunning custom swords at that price range.
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Post by Hrimnir on Apr 9, 2018 9:20:33 GMT
Not about DSA as I'm pretty much done arguing anything about production swords. But as it was asked where to get custom swords for 1500-2000$ range there are dozens of European smiths that can produce you stunning custom swords at that price range. Exactly this, for example Damian Sulowski just posted this for $1500 euro, and I believe it includes the amazing scabbard too: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/53970/sword-xva-light-swan-saleAlso guys like Lukas MG here on the forums can do you something very nice and VERY functional in that proce range. Check out "Castle Keep" in scotland as well.
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Post by Wes Cameron on Apr 18, 2018 1:27:23 GMT
The important thing to keep in mind with handling, same as aesthetics and many other aspects of swords etc, is that it's very subjective. Everybody likes their swords to handle differently, and what further complicates things in the production world is that no two swords of the same model, from the same maker, handle exactly the same. In my opinion, DSA had its heyday a few years back when it was basically the new Generation 2 (now Legacy Arms) and by that I mean cheap, basic swords, overbuilt, heavy, but tough. In recent years they've aimed for better quality, but like many other manufacturers have faced some growing pains. Increased lemon rate as they iron out the new designs/processes, old fans disappointed they broke their new sword doing something it wasn't supposed to be able to do (but X review said it could) and, I think the biggest strike most have against DSA now is they're much more expensive than they used to be. Coupled with not really having enough to go on as far as justifying the cost, other similarly-priced swords from other makers (Valiant, Hanwei, etc) just carry better reputations overall. But if you find what you like through DSA and you can afford the asking price, I say just get it. It's up to you, once you have it in hand, whether it's worth it. DSA was Legacy Arms? When was that? I want to get a Legacy Arms Excalibur, but not if it was/is made by whomever DSA gets to make their swords. I read that the LA Excalibur is a good sword - cuts and handles well, but is a bit heavy, so it does not seem to me that it is made by the same people who make DSA swords.
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Post by Faldarin on Apr 18, 2018 1:33:27 GMT
The important thing to keep in mind with handling, same as aesthetics and many other aspects of swords etc, is that it's very subjective. Everybody likes their swords to handle differently, and what further complicates things in the production world is that no two swords of the same model, from the same maker, handle exactly the same. In my opinion, DSA had its heyday a few years back when it was basically the new Generation 2 (now Legacy Arms) and by that I mean cheap, basic swords, overbuilt, heavy, but tough. In recent years they've aimed for better quality, but like many other manufacturers have faced some growing pains. Increased lemon rate as they iron out the new designs/processes, old fans disappointed they broke their new sword doing something it wasn't supposed to be able to do (but X review said it could) and, I think the biggest strike most have against DSA now is they're much more expensive than they used to be. Coupled with not really having enough to go on as far as justifying the cost, other similarly-priced swords from other makers (Valiant, Hanwei, etc) just carry better reputations overall. But if you find what you like through DSA and you can afford the asking price, I say just get it. It's up to you, once you have it in hand, whether it's worth it. DSA was Legacy Arms? When was that? I want to get a Legacy Arms Excalibur, but not if it was/is made by whomever DSA gets to make their swords. I read that the LA Excalibur is a good sword - cuts and handles well, but is a bit heavy, so it does not seem to me that it is made by the same people who make DSA swords. I believe, Wes, that he meant 'basically the same kind of builds' where they were a little heavier/tougher and basic swords. He's not implying they're the same company.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 18, 2018 1:38:26 GMT
On that point specifically, Cold Steel sources their blades from the same place Dynasty Forge does, but DF is well respected whereas CS is not to much(at least with swords) so I don't think it is so much the forge as the specs(geometry, heat treatment, etc) that each company specifies. I've not owned an LA or DSA, so I cannot compare the two, but even if they come from the same place I'd hesitate to paint them with the same brush. Again, non-owner + never handled = grain of salt, hahaha.
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