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Post by cearball on Feb 23, 2018 4:55:34 GMT
Hi all,
I feel like I am being a pain with all my threads/posts lately.
Anyway as the title says I am thinking of pouring some epoxy down guard gaps on two windlass swords.
The hilts aren't loose, just a pre-emptive idea.
So any advice on the best one to buy?
I imagine one with low viscosity so it sinks down easily.
Thanks, I am really enjoying this forum good crowd.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 24, 2018 3:34:53 GMT
Let me throw this out there for thought: If those swords have a threaded pommel they have the ability to be disassembled. And this is why I prefer threaded pommels, for maintenance. If you try to fill that gap with ordinary epoxy the guard is going to be attached to the blade at least semi permanently. I suggest using Acraglas www.amazon.com/Acraglas-Rifle-Bedding-Kit-Enough/dp/B00TXS2TCM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519441746&sr=8-3&keywords=acraglas This kit contains a release coating that will prevent the epoxy from adhering to the metal. It is actually designed for bedding barrelled actions into stocks. I used this when I was into firearms and when it came time to repair a Windlass sword this is what I used in order to be able to disassemble the sword. Everything went back together after I finished and I had the ability to disassemble the sword as before. That repair was made in May last year to redo the first repair in March when I was still waiting for the Acraglas to arrive and the sword is still going strong. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/50514/repairing-windlass-threaded-sword
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Post by cearball on Feb 24, 2018 7:44:13 GMT
Thanks for the input guys.
Both swords are peened.
I was thinking of doing it to make them more structurally sound.
In which case I imagine I want the epoxy to adhere to the metal...?
Just fill the gaps.
One of the swords has an audible clink in the tang area when dry handling but nothing has changed loose.
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Post by cearball on Feb 25, 2018 6:56:04 GMT
Done a bit of reading on acraglas.
Sounds like it may do the trick as it sounds like it is quite thin once mixed (at least the original). Also you don't have to rush as it takes awhile to set.
So I can mix it using syringes to measure the quantity. Then use a syringe to drip the mixture down the space in the guard.
Leave a day.
All set.
Sound about right?
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Post by demonskull on Feb 25, 2018 16:05:29 GMT
Tape up the lower separations so it doesn't find it's way out and ruin your grip and pommel.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 25, 2018 18:13:26 GMT
Done a bit of reading on acraglas. Sounds like it may do the trick as it sounds like it is quite thin once mixed (at least the original). Also you don't have to rush as it takes awhile to set. So I can mix it using syringes to measure the quantity. Then use a syringe to drip the mixture down the space in the guard. Leave a day. All set. Sound about right? I’m not sure where and what you’ve been reading about Acraglas but that in no way resembles my experience with the stuff. For one it does not come nor is used with a syringe and while it will flow it is viscous. I was referring to this stuff www.amazon.com/Acraglas-Rifle-Bedding-Kit-Enough/dp/B00TXS2TCM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519577368&sr=8-3&keywords=acraglas . A couple of cups are furnished for mixing but I used such small quantities I mixed on waxed paper. Since your swords are peened you will not be planning on disassembling them so your approach will be different than mine. Probably you will stand your swords upright and put the epoxy into the gap between the guard and blade. I would remove as much oil as possible first. Perhaps flushing the hole with alcohol and paper towel, although Acraglas seems to tolerate small amounts of oil when it comes to binding. I would then coat the exterior areas that that you do not want the epoxy to adhere to with the release coating x 2, and then work the epoxy into the hole. You will be working with a very small quantity of the epoxy and the kit as it comes is designed to use larger quantities. For my guard I think I mixed 10 drops (1:4), could have been more drops, on the wax paper using the pointed end of a skewer stick then worked it into the hole. Try not to get sloppy but the release coating makes clean up easier. My intent was not to fill the hole as such but to take out the play so that it did not wobble around, giving a snug fit yet still allowing me to disassemble. And I get the idea that your intent is cosmetic. No need to race the clock as Acraglas will give you plenty of working time. I realized a mistake after two hours and was still able to correct it but I must say that I cut it close, boarder line close.
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Post by cearball on Feb 25, 2018 21:53:49 GMT
Tape up the lower separations so it doesn't find it's way out and ruin your grip and pommel. I was wondering about this & whether I should. Better safe then sorry me thinks!
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Post by cearball on Feb 25, 2018 22:23:37 GMT
Done a bit of reading on acraglas. Sounds like it may do the trick as it sounds like it is quite thin once mixed (at least the original). Also you don't have to rush as it takes awhile to set. So I can mix it using syringes to measure the quantity. Then use a syringe to drip the mixture down the space in the guard. Leave a day. All set. Sound about right? I’m not sure where and what you’ve been reading about Acraglas but that in no way resembles my experience with the stuff. For one it does not come nor is used with a syringe and while it will flow it is viscous. I was referring to this stuff www.amazon.com/Acraglas-Rifle-Bedding-Kit-Enough/dp/B00TXS2TCM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519577368&sr=8-3&keywords=acraglas . A couple of cups are furnished for mixing but I used such small quantities I mixed on waxed paper. Since your swords are peened you will not be planning on disassembling them so your approach will be different than mine. Probably you will stand your swords upright and put the epoxy into the gap between the guard and blade. I would remove as much oil as possible first. Perhaps flushing the hole with alcohol and paper towel, although Acraglas seems to tolerate small amounts of oil when it comes to binding. I would then coat the exterior areas that that you do not want the epoxy to adhere to with the release coating x 2, and then work the epoxy into the hole. You will be working with a very small quantity of the epoxy and the kit as it comes is designed to use larger quantities. For my guard I think I mixed 10 drops (1:4), could have been more drops, on the wax paper using the pointed end of a skewer stick then worked it into the hole. Try not to get sloppy but the release coating makes clean up easier. My intent was not to fill the hole as such but to take out the play so that it did not wobble around, giving a snug fit yet still allowing me to disassemble. And I get the idea that your intent is cosmetic. No need to race the clock as Acraglas will give you plenty of working time. I realized a mistake after two hours and was still able to correct it but I must say that I cut it close, boarder line close. Hi. Thats the stuff as far as I can tell. You are right in regards to how I intend to use/apply the epoxy, thinking clamping the three swords upright. I did read your experience with the German bastard sword for some insight. I have linked the article that talks about using syringes etc to apply, found it on blade forums. Sounded like the same stuff link
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 26, 2018 0:37:09 GMT
You could also use copper shims. Sharpen one edge like a chisel and use a rubber mallet to wedge them in. I use it on antiques quite often.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 26, 2018 1:55:47 GMT
Hi. Thats the stuff as far as I can tell. You are right in regards to how I intend to use/apply the epoxy, thinking clamping the three swords upright. I did read your experience with the German bastard sword for some insight. I have linked the article that talks about using syringes etc to apply, found it on blade forums. Sounded like the same stuff link
I think we are all talking the same stuff. When I read your post I thought the syringe came as part of the kit. Time didn’t permit me to read the thread on Blade Forums in its entirety but it looks like he’s using a third party’s syringe. The syringe as I envision it consists of two transparent graduated barrels or chamber one each for the resin and hardener and a plunger. I have seen those syringes and thought that was a convenient way of getting the correct ratio. As I have never used a syringe everything I say is conjecture. I think that is a good way to get your proper ratio. As I don’t know the nozzle size nor the hole size you are working with I am missing information. Hopefully the two are compatible, something to think about. While the syringe will help administer the ratio, Acraglas has to be mixed, like all epoxies, and the instructions call for two minutes if I remember. That seems like an unnecessarily long time but I suggest that you do so. Having sufficient room in the guard’s hole that is occupied with the blade, to do so properly raises questions in my mind. Not only can you get incomplete mixing you will splash some over the edge requiring more clean up. Mixing where you can see the mixing taking place is a big help. A syringe, as I see it, will deliver the desired ratio as two beads that you will still need to mix. Just food for thought. An afterthought; It might be necessary to use more than one application, getting a good base then a finishing coat. Play it by ear.
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Post by stopped1 on Feb 26, 2018 2:06:54 GMT
Done a bit of reading on acraglas. Sounds like it may do the trick as it sounds like it is quite thin once mixed (at least the original). Also you don't have to rush as it takes awhile to set. So I can mix it using syringes to measure the quantity. Then use a syringe to drip the mixture down the space in the guard. Leave a day. All set. Sound about right? I’m not sure where and what you’ve been reading about Acraglas but that in no way resembles my experience with the stuff. For one it does not come nor is used with a syringe and while it will flow it is viscous. I was referring to this stuff www.amazon.com/Acraglas-Rifle-Bedding-Kit-Enough/dp/B00TXS2TCM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519577368&sr=8-3&keywords=acraglas . A couple of cups are furnished for mixing but I used such small quantities I mixed on waxed paper. Since your swords are peened you will not be planning on disassembling them so your approach will be different than mine. Probably you will stand your swords upright and put the epoxy into the gap between the guard and blade. I would remove as much oil as possible first. Perhaps flushing the hole with alcohol and paper towel, although Acraglas seems to tolerate small amounts of oil when it comes to binding. I would then coat the exterior areas that that you do not want the epoxy to adhere to with the release coating x 2, and then work the epoxy into the hole. You will be working with a very small quantity of the epoxy and the kit as it comes is designed to use larger quantities. For my guard I think I mixed 10 drops (1:4), could have been more drops, on the wax paper using the pointed end of a skewer stick then worked it into the hole. Try not to get sloppy but the release coating makes clean up easier. My intent was not to fill the hole as such but to take out the play so that it did not wobble around, giving a snug fit yet still allowing me to disassemble. And I get the idea that your intent is cosmetic. No need to race the clock as Acraglas will give you plenty of working time. I realized a mistake after two hours and was still able to correct it but I must say that I cut it close, boarder line close. there are two types of acraglas marketed by Brownells, plain and gel. Gel is the stuff used normally for bedding, the plain one will work but painful as it flows like water, I usually have to wait 30 min before use so that it is less runny but this stuff is great for fixing crack, it just flows into any gap..... the non gel version is the go to stuff for sticking the handle in this case I guess. I also use syringes,1ml syringes ar great (0.8 ml : 0.2 ml mix for small cracks) as this stuff is so pricy! If one really want a solid fit, the handle should be degreased but we are not talking about repair here. If you are anal about uber strong fit, drill a 1.5mm hole in the handle, then use the blunt end of the drill bit to push the epoxy in... again, over kill.
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Post by cearball on Mar 15, 2018 0:04:45 GMT
Original acraglas on route.
Electric tape, syringes & white spirit ready.
I will update this to let people know the outcome.
As a side not the Brownells customer service reckons both gel/original acraglas can be applied with a syringe with a suitably wide nozzle.
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Post by leviathansteak on Mar 15, 2018 1:37:36 GMT
Im missed the thread but you can accomplish your glue reinforcement job with loctite 290. It wicks into small gaps very easily and hardens in place in a minute or two. I use it to fix slightly loose crossguards sometimes
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Post by cearball on Mar 28, 2018 20:18:17 GMT
Right.
Finished filling a windlass Spartan lakonia & falchion.
Lessons learnt : At 10'C temp this stuff is thick kinda like honey. However you can still use a syringe to stick it up & apply.
If you heat it ( I used a hair dryer) it can become like water. However this rapidly speeds up the curing time.
Easy to mix & good instructions.
I should of been way more liberal in applying the release agent in terms of done the first 1/4 of the blade & the ENTIRE handguard. The release agent works well. Sigh regretting not being more patient & covering a greater area.
I taped up leakage points with electrical tape & it worked well enough. Did an initial flush out with white spirit to clean inside the handles. This allows you to A) see if the tape is working & B) see how many syringes it takes to fill the handle. I just let it drain out upside down mixed the epoxy & went at it.
You need loads of gloves & tissues & cotton buds to clean & stop cross contamination ( this may just be me lol )
What I should of done was suck up the pre mixed epoxy in the syringe. Heated with hair dryer then applied to sword. I just did it without heating initially but it won't seep down well into the guard as too viscous. Once applied it is a pain to heat.
Also this stuff drys HARD but you can cut bits off once done to tidy.
Anyway hope this helps.
Any questions fire away.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 28, 2018 21:29:22 GMT
Now you have some experience and can adjust making it easier the next time. I would think cotton not the best to use as it should leave fuzz behind. If I am not mistaken the instructions suggest something for clean up before it sets up. As well as I remember the stuff is viscose but many disputed me saying it was thin, some comparing it to water. I hope the end result is satisfactory and certainly your experience is worth something. And yeah, the stuff is hard.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 28, 2018 23:01:00 GMT
Thanks for the follow up.
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Post by cearball on Mar 29, 2018 1:04:04 GMT
Now you have some experience and can adjust making it easier the next time. I would think cotton not the best to use as it should leave fuzz behind. If I am not mistaken the instructions suggest something for clean up before it sets up. As well as I remember the stuff is viscose but many disputed me saying it was thin, some comparing it to water. I hope the end result is satisfactory and certainly your experience is worth something. And yeah, the stuff is hard. I imagine if making this stuff in a Warm climate it would be like water. With a little heat it transforms quickly. It suggests cotton buds in the instructions. TBH the instructions are really good for this. I think under the right conditions this could be a good epoxy option for swords. However the person who suggested loctite. I would be interested to learn more about that especially if it doesn't need to be mixed.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 29, 2018 2:24:51 GMT
I am not familiar with Loctite 290, it is sold in tube form as a thread locker, I’ve used Loctite 242 with good results on threads. I find the 242 best used on swords with threaded pommels that keep loosening. It dries quickly and holds well. Just a drop well do it.
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