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Post by cearball on Feb 18, 2018 13:36:17 GMT
Hi all, I have been reviewing some threads on cutting, reading this sites articles etc. I have bought some tatami to cut with (first time) & I am going to make a simple makeshift stand using some cricket stumps & cables ties. So first question. 1) How many mats should I put together? The paper work that came with it suggests 3-4. I deally I would rather have more targets that are reasonable cutting mediums than a few quite hard to cut targets, so the less mats I can get away with the better. www.ninecircles.co.uk/Swords_and_Test_Cutting/Test_Cutting/Straw_Tameshigiri_(Test_Cutting)_Mats_-_Pack_Of_20.aspxI have these ones. 2) How long to soak/drain? The paperwork suggests 3 days soak/half a day drain. I have seen 24 hours/ 12 hours suggested a few times as well. 3) How sharp should my sword be? I have heard various opinions on this, especially that when cutting tatami the sharper the better. myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1980sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/28850/objective-sharpness-testHowever I am taking 4 swords, 1 is easily paper cutting sharp the others which I sharpened are just shy of paper cutting. The other 2 are paper cutting/tearing sharp. I did this on purpose as I heard this was more in line with "sword sharp" & that is what I want to try to achieve to be able to cut with a sword that is as sharp as it was designed to be. The 4th is a windlass qama with the unsharpened 1 mm edge (just curious) www.hemacutting.com/cutting-faq/This articles recommends that the sword should be sharp enough to shave with which confuses me as on this forum I have seen it argued that such sharpness is overboard for a European sword that would contact mail etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 16:13:25 GMT
Hi Cearball,
It's been a while since I last cut, but the usual routine was a minimum of 24 hours soak time, and then about an hour or so to drain but this was done in a group and things take time so some targets had a lot longer to start drying out...
I would recommend doing a test session with 2 single rolled mats. Actually setting these two up and using them will get you more usable information for yourself than a 20 page thread. If there is a problem with your stand or some unanticipated issue, it's better to sort it out without burning your whole set of 20.
Have fun, stay safe, and mind your footing!
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Post by cearball on Feb 18, 2018 16:24:52 GMT
Hi Cearball, It's been a while since I last cut, but the usual routine was a minimum of 24 hours soak time, and then about an hour or so to drain but this was done in a group and things take time so some targets had a lot longer to start drying out... I would recommend doing a test session with 2 single rolled mats. Actually setting these two up and using them will get you more usable information for yourself than a 20 page thread. If there is a problem with your stand or some unanticipated issue, it's better to sort it out without burning your whole set of 20. Have fun, stay safe, and mind your footing! Hi, Maybe that is the ideal option. I will wait for better weather then test.
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Post by skane on Feb 18, 2018 17:55:04 GMT
2) How long to soak/drain? 3) How sharp should my sword be? Soak time depends on the mats. If the vendor has a recommendation best to just follow them. I soak Mugen Dachi for ~ 24 hours, but they can be good to go after 8-12 hours depending on how tightly it's rolled. Japanese tatami is much denser, I usually soak at least 3 days to allow the water to get completely into and distributed across the roll. Paper cutting sharp is fine. If the blade is too sharp and the edge geometry/toughness is insufficient to support the edge for the type of mat being cut (i.e. used Japanese tatami), the blade can get micro serrations/rolls.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Feb 23, 2018 1:40:50 GMT
This articles recommends that the sword should be sharp enough to shave with which confuses me as on this forum I have seen it argued that such sharpness is overboard for a European sword that would contact mail etc. There is a lot of armchair expertise when it comes to these things, but if you are looking for a sword that will be able to go through clothing and into a person you are going to want it shaving sharp. Is it possible you make certain cuts work without doing so? Yes. You will also have to have a much higher level of skill, and make a much bigger motion to have the cut succeed. Likewise this isn't 100% necessary for cutting tatami, but not having the sword properly sharpened will offer a much steeper learning curve and often times train you to do things like throw yourself way off balance when you cut. I don't know know how resistive those mats you have are, so I can't give you much specific feedback on what you are going to want to get through them.
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Post by cearball on Feb 23, 2018 2:36:54 GMT
This articles recommends that the sword should be sharp enough to shave with which confuses me as on this forum I have seen it argued that such sharpness is overboard for a European sword that would contact mail etc. There is a lot of armchair expertise when it comes to these things, but if you are looking for a sword that will be able to go through clothing and into a person you are going to want it shaving sharp. Is it possible you make certain cuts work without doing so? Yes. You will also have to have a much higher level of skill, and make a much bigger motion to have the cut succeed. Likewise this isn't 100% necessary for cutting tatami, but not having the sword properly sharpened will offer a much steeper learning curve and often times train you to do things like throw yourself way off balance when you cut. I don't know know how resistive those mats you have are, so I can't give you much specific feedback on what you are going to want to get through them. Thanks for the input. I wonder if I wrapped a tatami in an old sweater if that is a good test in terms of technique/sharpness..... Anyway first I am going to worry about the tatami raw!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 2:50:19 GMT
That's probably the smartest way to attack. Get a baseline then start adding layers. You can do a cartwheel onto a unicycle while playing the kazoo later on.
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Post by cearball on Feb 23, 2018 2:59:42 GMT
That's probably the smartest way to attack. Get a baseline then start adding layers. You can do a cartwheel onto a unicycle while playing the kazoo later on. Dammit it's you that's been reading my private diary !!!! LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 20:57:21 GMT
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Aikidoka
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Post by Aikidoka on Feb 26, 2018 19:15:18 GMT
Excellent article! I hadn't seen that one. Some, but not all, of that information is also discussed and demonstrated in Mike Femal's video, where he cut different types of targets with Kaneie katanas:
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Aikidoka
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Post by Aikidoka on Feb 26, 2018 19:18:51 GMT
As for blade sharpness, I keep my swords shaving sharp. That definitely helps with tatami cutting and in at least one recent HEMA event, linen wrapped mats were cut in the advanced cutting tournament. If your blade is not shaving sharp, you will have trouble with cloth covered targets.
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Post by cearball on Mar 1, 2018 17:02:26 GMT
I found the article & video useful.
Liked how the video mentioned how things I didn't really think about, like blade polish makes a difference
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Post by cearball on Jun 9, 2018 21:54:32 GMT
Right so first cuts on tatami complete!
In the end took
1860 windlass cutlass Windlass xiv Windlass charay/Khyber knife CS hand & a half
Used mainly 3 mat targets & some coconuts which I often do for durability tests.
Managed to cut the 3 mats with windlass xiv & Khyber knife but only when using a two hand grips & not consistently. Most of the time failed to go all the way through.
CS hand & a half destroyed everything, one handed, two handed. We even got all the chopped up mats & managed to make a 18-21 mat roll, it went over 3/4s through!
I may have slightly bent the windlass Khyber knife, not sure how.
Anyway I will post some pics & vids when I get them as I haven't seen many of the 1860 & Khyber knife for cutting
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Post by MOK on Jun 10, 2018 10:52:11 GMT
Interesting - personally, I've always found one-handed cutting more intuitive with most weapons.
Looking forward to those vids! The Khyber knife in particular.
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Post by cearball on Jun 10, 2018 13:06:30 GMT
I am curious why the cs h&h does a well comparatively.
Is it the edge or the sword design.....
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 10, 2018 20:19:46 GMT
Looking forward to the videos and photos.
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Post by cearball on Jun 11, 2018 20:47:44 GMT
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Post by cearball on Jun 11, 2018 20:49:48 GMT
Apologies for the shirtless photos. I kinda forgot what I was going to use them for.
This is a little taster of the swords & the 16-21 monster mat we created
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