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Post by 1srelluc on Jan 27, 2018 19:04:06 GMT
Well it's a mystery to me at least 33" blade.....37.50" OAL. No markings other than the etchings. Any ideas?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 0:27:42 GMT
It seems to be a very nice sabre from the early 1800s. The blade Solingen with little doubt but the basic blade decoration spanned a few decades and seen on both straight swords and sabres. I have two US market swords from the era that share some of the elements. An eaglehead pommel sabre with the same decorative elements to the b&g and a straight sword with a very similar grip having doubled copperish wire. The straight sword hilt no earlier than twenties I should think and the sabre blade perhaps earlier. Bare blades were used up over the decades and we see some US market swords with this exacting decoration sans the block of b&g at the base of the blades. My eagle blade has a crescent like border vs the rectangular grille. I cannot make out the initials on my blade but some like yours have no maker mark. Others sometimes K&S for Kirschbaum&Schimmelbusch or S.H.F. for Simon Helvig and sons. My straight job with the similar grip was imported by Horstmann around 1830, or a little later. Honestly, your scabbard seems a later period with the blade being "used up" as I implied earlier. Where did this sword surface? My eagle blade My straight job with similar grip and wire I could pull up both straight and sabre blades with this same decoration motif and all German based swords. Parts, blades, everything shared and swapped about in trade. My straight job is thought to be a Saxon type hilt with the langets but much like the Bavarian 1826 that lacked langets, as you sword also has no langets. That doesn't necessarily place it from or for somewhere, just one of those characteristics that might make sense of them.
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Post by El Chingon on Jan 28, 2018 0:48:57 GMT
If anyone nails this down, I'd love to know as well. The hilt components are exactly what I like.
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Post by 1srelluc on Jan 28, 2018 0:59:07 GMT
Thanks for the info. I suspected it was pre-Civil War German "market sword". Lots of swords/sabers came in unmarked.
I did see a straight Kirschbaum & Schimmelbusch that had the same etching and a "lacquered" look to it in the etched area but it was well marked.
As to where it turned-up.....Virginia, but that means little.
It was found in a big pasteboard box of swords from all over the world. The former owner (passed) of a gun shop was a dealer/importer in all kinds of militaria, edged weapons, and guns. The box was found when they replaced the furnace a couple weeks ago. Goodness knows where they came from.
El Chingon:
Yeah, the hilt is what attracted me to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 2:19:18 GMT
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Post by 1srelluc on Jan 28, 2018 2:43:49 GMT
Ahh, so it's blued instead of lacquered. I had not really messed with the blade yet because I thought it was lacquered and did not want to wear it off. I just put a bit of Rem-Oil on a soft cloth and wiped the old oil away it really looks nice. Thanks again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 4:12:17 GMT
Be careful not to use any solvents that might lift any bright nitre blue right off.
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Post by 1srelluc on Jan 28, 2018 4:49:14 GMT
Not to worry, i'm a big fan of less is more.
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Post by Pino on Jan 28, 2018 19:12:19 GMT
By the looks of the hilt it is either a South German or Austrian officer sword for light cavalry model 1803. Normally Austrian officer rarely had blue/gilt blades so I'm guessing it's more likely to be the former. Pretty sword and well kept for its age!
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 29, 2018 5:33:38 GMT
Funny. That was my first thought too. Bavarian. As far as I can see the only tribe that had the ribbed ferrule. Entrelac looks Solingen. Is the Solingen Rose engraved on the spine of the blade just under the guard? It looks like a little curly thing, not like a rose at all. It was the Solingen export mark.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 29, 2018 6:03:15 GMT
The scabbard throat to me looks more Austrian as well, or at least similar to swords like the IOS 1861.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 29, 2018 8:46:44 GMT
Yes. Bavarians had those too, like on the M1826 Chevaux légère for instance. It may help to have a look here and search the Bayern and Österreich, Österreich-Ungarn sections: www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?s=f29d9b2ab2989ff6dc549e93a5404b18The scabbard points to 18th C. and the very beginning of the 19th C. The brazed on ringmounts with the faceted ring holders were a fad then. A very nice sabre indeed.
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Post by 1srelluc on Jan 29, 2018 12:08:08 GMT
Funny. That was my first thought too. Bavarian. As far as I can see the only tribe that had the ribbed ferrule. Entrelac looks Solingen. Is the Solingen Rose engraved on the spine of the blade just under the guard? It looks like a little curly thing, not like a rose at all. It was the Solingen export mark. Yes it has the "rose" or something similar to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 13:03:22 GMT
There are a variety of the marks. To my knowledge, meant to be the origin of various forges.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 30, 2018 5:50:09 GMT
Didn't you collect these, or was it decorations on the spines of blades?
A publication on the Rose theme would be very interesting. But where to start. How to connect a forge with a particular Rose. I would like to know why they had the mark at all. Was this some old medieval Guilds rule? It seems very strange, because many an Entrelac is just signed with the forge address. Why hide behind an anonymous signature? Or was it the mark of some general inspector of quality that changed over time and with the functionary, like for instance the mark of inspector Bish working at Klingenthal. He changed his B stamp every couple of years. Everybody did.
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Post by Svadilfari on Jan 30, 2018 6:43:39 GMT
I suspect one possible reason for changing his "B" stamp every few years was just simple practicality. You drive a steel stamp into a hard steel blade several hundred times and that stamp will start to wear down and loose the "crispness" of the original letter. Then it's time to go get a new stamp ?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 30, 2018 16:25:05 GMT
No, I don't think so. Some French punch designs lasted a long time. Lobsteins L in circle lasted for ages. Changes were made when the regime changed, like changing from Empire II to Republic etc and a Directors career choises. Inspectors lasted longer and during their service often changed the design of their personal punch mark. To me the reason is not very obvious. When a punch wore out they would be given a new one of the same design. Lobstein probably used a car load with his L in circle design during his career. Here are French punch marks you'll find on a lot of French sabres: www.klingenthal.fr/presentation_marquages.htm
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