|
Post by Verity on Dec 14, 2017 20:20:13 GMT
Just taking the time to vent.
Working on my polishing project.... I swear some of these grind marks from initial shaping are super deep.
I have most of them out but darnit... couple of them are just hanging on... super frustrating...
2 solid days of polishing at this stone level (equivalent of 220 grit)... UGH!!!!
Any polishers experience this? Would love some ideas... i’ve even considered attacking this with 100 grit paper just to get grind marks out, but i’d then be worried about messing with geometry.
|
|
|
Post by RaylonTheDemented on Dec 14, 2017 20:38:42 GMT
Venting is indeed liberating.
Pray continue.
Edit: My polishing skills are rock banging civilization level. The good news is, it can only improve. That or I get extinct.
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Dec 14, 2017 20:39:11 GMT
I'd start with the 100 grit (with all due care, of course). I find that using a succession of gradually finer grits takes a lot less work than going straight to a fine one - and get the surface looking uniform at each grit before moving on to the next, too, otherwise you will run into this sort of problems in the later stages, IME.
|
|
|
Post by Voltan on Dec 14, 2017 20:44:27 GMT
I start with 120 grit paper, and wet sand with 3-in-1 oil. I stick with 120 until all the crap you mentioned is gone.
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 14, 2017 20:50:42 GMT
Hmm. Guess I’ll stop fighting these marks so bad and just drop down to a more course grit. UGH’
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 14, 2017 21:45:55 GMT
I start with 120 grit paper, and wet sand with 3-in-1 oil. I stick with 120 until all the crap you mentioned is gone. when you are doing this.... how OCD do you get? Do you turn the blade under light in every possible way to ensure all marks from previous grit / grind are gone? Do you permit ANY no matter how small through? My instincts say no... but want to make sure i’m not overthinking this. Honestly this is not my first polish by any means but never had such stubborn grinds or marks like this before.
|
|
|
Post by Voltan on Dec 15, 2017 3:32:01 GMT
when you are doing this.... how OCD do you get? Do you turn the blade under light in every possible way to ensure all marks from previous grit / grind are gone? Do you permit ANY no matter how small through? My instincts say no... but want to make sure i’m not overthinking this. Honestly this is not my first polish by any means but never had such stubborn grinds or marks like this before. I'm still in my rookie season as far as polishing goes. I have recently become very OCD about it. I have a clamp-on swivel lamp mounted to my grinder. I can point this light right over the area that I polish, and I do look at different lighting angles to check. I can't tell you how many times I've thought I was done with 120, only to find at a certain view, that there are still visible marks. I just pop in another CD in the boom box, and keep at it...so I feel your pain, lol. I've recently started doing a 120 grit pre-polish when I get the blades back from heat treat. I try to get all of the scratches and grind marks out during this stage, then sharpen. After sharpening, I start the final polish with 120 again. Then 220, 400, 600, all with 3-in-1 oil. I finish with 1200, dry at that point. Finally, I strop on the 1x30. Since I've started doing it this way, I've noticed a significant improvement in my finishes.
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 15, 2017 3:44:03 GMT
when you are doing this.... how OCD do you get? Do you turn the blade under light in every possible way to ensure all marks from previous grit / grind are gone? Do you permit ANY no matter how small through? My instincts say no... but want to make sure i’m not overthinking this. Honestly this is not my first polish by any means but never had such stubborn grinds or marks like this before. I'm still in my rookie season as far as polishing goes. I have recently become very OCD about it. I have a clamp-on swivel lamp mounted to my grinder. I can point this right over the area that I polish, and I do look at different lighting angles to check. I can't tell you how many times I've thought I was done with 120, only to find at a certain view, that there are still visible marks. I just pop in another CD in the boom box, and keep at it...so I feel your pain, lol. I've recently started doing a 120 grit pre-polish when I get the blades back from heat treat. I try to get all of the scratches and grind marks out during this stage, then sharpen. After sharpening, I start the final polish with 120 again. Then 220, 400, 600, all with 3-in-1 oil. I finish with 1200, dry at that point. Since I've started doing it this way, I've noticed a significant improvement in my finishes. yeah... confirms what I suspected... keep at it i guess I will. Haha
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 15, 2017 20:04:39 GMT
I start with 120 grit paper, and wet sand with 3-in-1 oil. I stick with 120 until all the crap you mentioned is gone. TWO hours at 100-grit with oil (super light pressure)... STILL there... aaaaargh! Time to try a water slurry... and if that doesn’f work... DRY 100-grit. I have NEVER seen such persistent grind marks... They are getting shallower but still there.
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 16, 2017 1:55:20 GMT
Definitely resisting the urge to throw this blade through a window...
I HAVE to be doing something wrong... I am used to stones not paper (but I have to use paper because the most course stone I have is kaisei... I don’t have an arato so using 100 grit wet/dry paper. I HAVE to be doing something wrong...
Backing material? I spent 2 hrs with 100 grit and oil. Grind marks shallower but still there. 2 MORE hours with 100 grit and water slurry... STILL there.
w.. t... f...
I am desperately trying NOT to modify the geometry so I am using the paper with a softer backing to conform to the surface... these grinds just will NOT go away...
AAAAARGH!!!!!!
Someone... ideas? Do I need a harder backing and just risk the geometry? Just more time? How bloody long does one expect this to take?
(Times btw for ONE side of a 27.5” (70cm) Nagasa.
I am so facing frustration and ready to throw this blade through a wall.
|
|
|
Post by RaylonTheDemented on Dec 16, 2017 3:26:19 GMT
Man, DO take a break, come back and see how you feel on how it's going in a day or two after you're rested.
I don't know, go watch Star Wars.
I heard things about it.
o7
|
|
|
Post by Voltan on Dec 16, 2017 3:26:41 GMT
I use a 3M rubber sanding block, the semicircular one. I'm using medium to heavy pressure with the coarse grits.
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 16, 2017 3:30:04 GMT
Man, DO take a break, come back and see how you feel on how it's going in a day or two after you're rested. I don't know, go watch Star Wars. I heard things about it. o7 yeah... will come back to it tomorrow. Need a breather.
|
|
Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
|
Post by Ifrit on Dec 16, 2017 6:29:31 GMT
I just consider imperfections to be battle scars
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Dec 16, 2017 14:19:14 GMT
I feel your problem. In the beginning I started with too fine paper until some wise man said that most people start with too fine of an abrasive. So I started with courser paper, although originally I tried stones. Then I discovered if I started with too course paper I worked harder getting the deep scratches out than I would have if I had started using a finer paper and taking more time. I think that it takes some practice to hit a balance. For me a somewhat compressible backing with paper and oil on a hard flat surface works best. Depending on the blade I will either work with a block passing it over the blade and with other blades I find it’s better to pass the blade over the paper. In that case I use paper/oil of a larger size.
|
|
christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
|
Post by christain on Dec 16, 2017 15:20:56 GMT
I just consider imperfections to be battle scars A sword without a few nicks and scratches is like McDonalds French fries without ketchup. I consider them to be a compliment of quality and usage. I'm talking about the sword here....and the fries. Damn....now I'm hungry.
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 16, 2017 15:34:51 GMT
I agree (for the most part) on blades having some scratch marks. Heck even albions with their satin finishes have them in the right light.
But some context:
I am TRYING to produce as close to a Nihonto like finish on this blade for a couple of reasons:
1.) I don’t own a “production tachi” because well.. I don’t like the offerings out there. So I am trying to specifically go for a “showy” piece. I have a Nihonto tachi but not a production one.
2.) I am trying to see how in the final stages, how etch compares to finger stones. My Hanwei is a nice polish and etch. I want to compare this blade using finger stones and traditional methods.
But to do that I have to GET it to final polishing stages. And the foundation polish stages are super important to get right to make the finger stones work properly.
To answer what I am currently doing with the paper (since I had to resort to paper initially given my kaisei stone where I initially started was not taking out the grinds) is 100 grit paper wrapped around a credit card (old gift card actually)... this gives me a backing that will conform to the geometry since I am trying NOT to change that. For stone work I am using stones and moving blade over stone. For this part I am moving paper over blade due to the setup.
Would you guys suggest paper over a larger backing like flow glass and using it as I’d use a stone? That does run more risk on the geometry
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Dec 16, 2017 16:18:57 GMT
Would you guys suggest paper over a larger backing like flow glass and using it as I’d use a stone? That does run more risk on the geometry I’ll keep the credit card technique in mind. I tried a stone early on when I tried to sharpen a katana, my first serious sharpening job and it took only a couple of passes for me to decide that wasn’t the way. Later I learned of paper with a slightly compressible backing which allowed the paper to conform to the blade and that was much more to my liking. For those blades that I pass over the paper I use a compressible backing the size of a mouse pad, in fact that’s what I use, and paper to match or slightly larger. I should point out that not all mouse pads have the same compressibility. I think a credit card size small for that job. As the paper loads up or dries I give it another squirt or two of WD-40 and that takes care of whatever problem. If it's a loading problem I will often blot with a paper towel after spraying to soak up the metal then spray again.
|
|
|
Post by Verity on Dec 16, 2017 16:28:45 GMT
Would you guys suggest paper over a larger backing like flow glass and using it as I’d use a stone? That does run more risk on the geometry I’ll keep the credit card technique in mind. I tried a stone early on when I tried to sharpen a katana, my first serious sharpening job and it took only a couple of passes for me to decide that wasn’t the way. Later I learned of paper with a slightly compressible backing which allowed the paper to conform to the blade and that was much more to my liking. For those blades that I pass over the paper I use a compressible backing the size of a mouse pad, in fact that’s what I use, and paper to match or slightly larger. I should point out that not all mouse pads have the same compressibility. I think a credit card size small for that job. As the paper loads up or dries I give it another squirt or two of WD-40 and that takes care of whatever problem. yeah the credit card technique is super handy for careful work... if I am doing super delicate I just tear a small bit of paper and use it with my fingers like a finger stone. Be super careful here to spare your fingers 😂. For credit card (I actually recommend like a grocery store loyalty card or old phone minutes card or something that does not have embossed type), you cut a set of paper matching the width and about 3/4” longer than the long end. Center the card on the paper and fold the two ends of paper around the card. Tape the back (I use either masking or painter’s tape)... that keeps the paper in place and gives you a sanding surface equivalent to the face of the card. That is what I am currently using for the 100-grit fiasco I am doing. Note you may want to make a few of them so you aren’t changing paper as the cut, fold, tape cycle breaks your rhythm.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Dec 16, 2017 18:40:00 GMT
Many thanks Verity and for adding the details. Some jobs I find better suited to the block over the blade such as if I am working with a peened hilt. That weight throws the blade off balance and I loose the feeling when passing it over a pad. In those cases a block I find is better although I do not like the method and don’t I use it except as a last resort as it feels lifeless in my hand. I am looking forward to the card method as I do believe that I will have a better feeling of what’s happening. I suspect it may very well replace my block but I may very well keep passing the blade over top of the paper when appropriate, I feel there is less chance of a cut.
|
|