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Post by kalkikrosah on Oct 16, 2017 21:28:07 GMT
Kult of Athena just uploaded some new stock earlier today and in the newest uploads is an ornate langseax made by Michael Tinker Pierce. The price tag on it forbids me from pulling the trigger but it is the most accurate reproduction I have seen of a langseax thus far. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=TINK030&name=Tinker+Pearce+Custom+%2D+Langseax+with+SheathThe simple round wooden handle, the leather sheath and the clipped point tip are what make this reproduction so enviable. My only nitpick is that the sheath should incorporate dual belt loops of different lengths or dual brass rings so that it can be suspended from your belt at a diagonal angle. But because this is a langseax and not a seax it may be more historically accurate to be worn much in the way an arming sword might be hanging laterally on the opposite side of your sword arm. In which case a harness or a single belt loop at the throat of the sheath may be more appropriate. Otherwise this thing is perfect. Proper seax etiquette: myarmoury.com/talk/files/middle_ages__41__-_copy_839.jpgOne of the ways a seax could have been worn. The other way is laterally behind your back. If any sword manufacturers see this thread please take note that a good langseax is a very under-represented weapon here in the sword collecting community. If you could recreate this design, cut out any excess expenditures (like the etching) you will have a monopoly on the market. Aim for a sell price near $400 and similar dimensions as seen on tinker pierces interpretation and you will be the go to stop for the best bang for your buck seax on the market.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Oct 16, 2017 21:43:00 GMT
If I had to pick between a 900 langseax and a 900 sword, I would go for the sword everytime regardless of style unless it was butt ugly
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Post by kalkikrosah on Oct 16, 2017 22:16:28 GMT
If I had to pick between a 900 langseax and a 900 sword, I would go for the sword everytime regardless of style unless it was butt ugly Yeah, that's partly the point. Tinker Pierce does great work but in my opinion he overcharges by a good $200 or $300 than if someone else made it. Tinker Pierce is a top-notch brand name and that is partly why he jacks up the price so high. I think manufacturers like Hanwei, Windlass and Cold Steel can recreate this langseax and make it affordable for the common collector if they just replicate the dimensions seen here and cut out the etching and possibly give it a rough finish instead of a mirror finish. The langseax itself is near perfection it's just the price tag that scares people away.
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Post by William Swiger on Oct 16, 2017 22:31:24 GMT
Glad I got mine from Michael Pikula in L6 before his prices went upwards.
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Post by kalkikrosah on Oct 16, 2017 22:34:55 GMT
Glad I got mine from Michael Pikula in L6 before his prices went upwards. Yep. You are a lucky duck. Nice foresight.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Oct 17, 2017 6:54:24 GMT
If I had to pick between a 900 langseax and a 900 sword, I would go for the sword everytime regardless of style unless it was butt ugly Yeah, that's partly the point. Tinker Pierce does great work but in my opinion he overcharges by a good $200 or $300 than if someone else made it. Tinker Pierce is a top-notch brand name and that is partly why he jacks up the price so high. (...) The langseax itself is near perfection it's just the price tag that scares people away. 900$ for a high quality custom made langseax with sheath is not overpriced.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Oct 17, 2017 7:21:14 GMT
I've made one like it without the fuller for a low price, but no sheath still had trouble selling them.
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Post by MOK on Oct 17, 2017 10:52:29 GMT
Yeah, that's partly the point. Tinker Pierce does great work but in my opinion he overcharges by a good $200 or $300 than if someone else made it. Tinker Pierce is a top-notch brand name and that is partly why he jacks up the price so high. I think manufacturers like Hanwei, Windlass and Cold Steel can recreate this langseax and make it affordable for the common collector if they just replicate the dimensions seen here and cut out the etching and possibly give it a rough finish instead of a mirror finish. The langseax itself is near perfection it's just the price tag that scares people away. Well, yeah, if you made it more cheaply you could sell it more cheaply - I mean, no offense, but duh, you know?
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ChrisA
Member
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,240
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Post by ChrisA on Oct 17, 2017 12:44:42 GMT
$900 for a properly made piece like this may be beyond many people's ability to afford, but it is insulting to Tinker to say he is overcharging. He may be charging too much for you, but there may be someone out there that wants a piece of this quality and are willing and able to pay this price. In which case it is not overpriced.
If not, then the market will dictate that it is overpriced and Tinker will have to drop his price a bit and see how it goes.
I personally do not think this is an outrageous price for this at all. I am not able to afford it at this time, but it is worth that price in my opinion.
If something costs more than you are able and/or willing to pay for it, that is fine. But to say it is overpriced is really not a fair thing to say.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,631
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Oct 17, 2017 13:59:43 GMT
He may be charging too much for you, but there may be someone out there that wants a piece of this quality and are willing and able to pay this price. In which case it is not overpriced. If not, then the market will dictate that it is overpriced and Tinker will have to drop his price a bit and see how it goes. This
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Post by kalkikrosah on Oct 17, 2017 14:34:36 GMT
$900 for a properly made piece like this may be beyond many people's ability to afford, but it is insulting to Tinker to say he is overcharging. He may be charging too much for you, but there may be someone out there that wants a piece of this quality and are willing and able to pay this price. In which case it is not overpriced. If not, then the market will dictate that it is overpriced and Tinker will have to drop his price a bit and see how it goes. I personally do not think this is an outrageous price for this at all. I am not able to afford it at this time, but it is worth that price in my opinion. If something costs more than you are able and/or willing to pay for it, that is fine. But to say it is overpriced is really not a fair thing to say. You're right, it is too much for me to afford. I know that Tinker Pierce is up there with Albion where they charge a lot but the price reflects the quality of their work. Their track record is excellent with putting out high quality pieces. I recognize that Tinker Pierce is one of the best smiths today and he can charge whatever he wants for it. I just think that someone can do just as good a job as Tinker Pierce can but charge much less. I just cannot find one. And you say $900 is a reasonable price and you may very well be right. I do not see many langseax out on today's market that isn't a custom made piece by a personally commissioned smith so maybe my perspective is skewed because of that. The only one I know of in that price range is this one: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=PRS405It is listed as $770 (but was originally listed at $1,025) and the price is largely influenced by the materials used. This langseax has runes etched in gold and comes with its own custom wall mounted plaque. It is Deepeeka, who does not have as strong a reputation as Tinker Pierce, and the blade comes unsharpened with no option to resharpen it. But that's really the only langseax I know of in the same price range and its only that pricey because gold is part of its construction. Take out the gold and the price tag would get cut in half. Tinker Pierce's langseax may not have gold etching or a fancy plaque but it comes sharp, it comes with an authentic sheath and it comes properly designed. It captures many of the trademarks of a good langseax and is the best model out right now of what a langseax should look like. But my gripe is that there is no middle ground for the langseax. You got the really high quality stuff with Tinker Pierce and custom smiths and then you got the low budget stuff which over half of them come blunt or unsharpened. I'd like to see someone make a langseax that is designed similarly to Tinker Pierce's langseax but at a lower price. If they need to use 1060 instead of 5160 or leave it without the etched designs in the sheath and handle to cut down the price then so be it. I think it can be done and I think it would be a good venture since most sword makers neglect reconstructing this design.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Oct 17, 2017 14:46:01 GMT
Deepeeka is trash,I would even pay 100 for that langseax, nor however would I pay 900 for the tinker langseax but that's not because it's not worth it but rather langseaxs are not my thing
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Post by MOK on Oct 17, 2017 16:05:22 GMT
But my gripe is that there is no middle ground for the langseax. You got the really high quality stuff with Tinker Pierce and custom smiths and then you got the low budget stuff which over half of them come blunt or unsharpened. I'd like to see someone make a langseax that is designed similarly to Tinker Pierce's langseax but at a lower price. If they need to use 1060 instead of 5160 or leave it without the etched designs in the sheath and handle to cut down the price then so be it. I think it can be done and I think it would be a good venture since most sword makers neglect reconstructing this design. Kris Cutlery used to offer just such a thing, folded or monosteel with very basic grip and scabbard (very much like shirasaya), for under a hundred dollars/euros. I have one of the last monosteel ones still waiting for me to make it some nicer furniture, and it's a beauty in all its plainness. No idea at all why they dropped it.
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Post by dchisenh on Oct 17, 2017 16:16:40 GMT
I also thought that langseax looked really nice, but it's above my budget. I just don't have that level of disposable income right now to justify that purchase.
Someone else who has a larger amount of disposable income or places the purchasing of swords/knives as a higher budgetary priority than I do might think this piece at this price is a steal.
Like others pointed out, if it sells almost immediately then it's likey underpriced. If it doesn't sell at all, it's clearly overpriced. If it takes a long time but eventually sells, it's up to the vendor/manufacturer to decide if that wait is too long or not and adjust prices accordingly.
From what I've seen, folks who have been collecting swords for long enough to have bought earlier and lower priced Tinkers, Atrims, etc. rightfully hold them in high regard and value them highly.
Folks who have only recently started collecting and missed out on those deals are learning about swords and starting their collecting with current market offerings and reading about those same lower priced deals with a mix of nostalgia and jealousy, wondering why it's closer to or over a grand for the same quality they read about for several hundred less only a few years ago.
If highly regarded smiths want to make a living as a higher priced boutique-type vendor, that's up to them and the market will dictate if that's viable or not. They are not competing with super low priced foreign firms, like Windlass, Hanwei, etc. If they create too large of a gap between the lowest priced swords and their offerings then there is an opening for a middle ground.
That middle ground is relative (I think $300-500 is a solid middle ground for a quality sword, but someone who is buying $5000+ custom pieces might consider the $900 Tinkers as middle ground...but I believe there are far fewer of those folks than there are people like myself). Personally, $300 is the magic number where I have a hard time passing up a solid value priced quality sword. For many people first getting into swords, saving up for or just flat out buying a quality $300 is a reasonable place to start.
I understand smiths like Lukas who are advocating for higher sword prices that take into account the time and effort put into them, as long as they can find enough business to support them, I say go for it. I likely won't ever end up owning a custom sword because I can't justify that cost in my budget and I'm certainly not alone. I will ogle and dream about the masterpieces I see here and elsewhere online in the meantime and hope for more middle-ground offerings.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,649
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Post by stormmaster on Oct 17, 2017 17:07:19 GMT
But my gripe is that there is no middle ground for the langseax. You got the really high quality stuff with Tinker Pierce and custom smiths and then you got the low budget stuff which over half of them come blunt or unsharpened. I'd like to see someone make a langseax that is designed similarly to Tinker Pierce's langseax but at a lower price. If they need to use 1060 instead of 5160 or leave it without the etched designs in the sheath and handle to cut down the price then so be it. I think it can be done and I think it would be a good venture since most sword makers neglect reconstructing this design. Kris Cutlery used to offer just such a thing, folded or monosteel with very basic grip and scabbard (very much like shirasaya), for under a hundred dollars/euros. I have one of the last monosteel ones still waiting for me to make it some nicer furniture, and it's a beauty in all its plainness. No idea at all why they dropped it. I wonder the same thing about why they kept making cheaper and cheaper Korean swords, I think they are on version 5 now
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Post by Faldarin on Oct 17, 2017 17:48:22 GMT
But my gripe is that there is no middle ground for the langseax. You got the really high quality stuff with Tinker Pierce and custom smiths and then you got the low budget stuff which over half of them come blunt or unsharpened. I'd like to see someone make a langseax that is designed similarly to Tinker Pierce's langseax but at a lower price. If they need to use 1060 instead of 5160 or leave it without the etched designs in the sheath and handle to cut down the price then so be it. I think it can be done and I think it would be a good venture since most sword makers neglect reconstructing this design. I agree that the langseax is somewhat ignored - but falchions suffer from the same problem. There may be 'some' falchion replicas out there, but almost all of them are AT LEAST a pound too heavy in the more budget category. The ones who do it right seem to be up in the 900+ range at least. So I feel your pain there. Falchions aren't my biggest interest, but I really like a well-done one.
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Post by kalkikrosah on Oct 17, 2017 21:24:03 GMT
But my gripe is that there is no middle ground for the langseax. You got the really high quality stuff with Tinker Pierce and custom smiths and then you got the low budget stuff which over half of them come blunt or unsharpened. I'd like to see someone make a langseax that is designed similarly to Tinker Pierce's langseax but at a lower price. If they need to use 1060 instead of 5160 or leave it without the etched designs in the sheath and handle to cut down the price then so be it. I think it can be done and I think it would be a good venture since most sword makers neglect reconstructing this design. I agree that the langseax is somewhat ignored - but falchions suffer from the same problem. There may be 'some' falchion replicas out there, but almost all of them are AT LEAST a pound too heavy in the more budget category. The ones who do it right seem to be up in the 900+ range at least. So I feel your pain there. Falchions aren't my biggest interest, but I really like a well-done one. Del Tin has a Falchion that doesn't seem too bad: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT5131&name=Del+Tin+13th+Century+FalchionI like the shape of the blade but at 2 lb and 11 oz it may be half a pound too heavy. That's the best showing I have seen thus far. I like mine to come with a scabbard so I probably won't ever actually buy this one. But in somewhat related news, Valiant Armory is in the process of designing new swords. They sent out a post on their Facebook page asking their community to suggest some ideas. Maybe you can find them on facebook and ask for a falchion.
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Post by Faldarin on Oct 17, 2017 22:22:10 GMT
The Del Tin Falchion has a cool blade shape. That pommel gives me nightmares though. It's wider than the blade for most of it! And I would say at least half a pound too heavy. VA would be a nice candidate - they've done a couple falchions over the years though, and I imagine Sonny is tired of messing with them. I'm just saying it's underrepresented in the budget range. Back to the seax though - I know that Tinker seems to have fallen out of favor with some people, if how long some of his pieces stay up on KoA is any indication (and it shouldn't be). Just a lot of us aren't interested in his shorter/smaller pieces. The ATrim swords that show up rarely on KoA just disappear though. (I'm not suggesting that Tinker doesn't do good work, far from it. Definitely, I am not in any position to evaluate, because the one 'Tinker' I own is a Tinker/Trim collaboration.)
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Oct 17, 2017 22:54:47 GMT
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Post by kalkikrosah on Oct 18, 2017 3:52:37 GMT
Kris Cutlery used to offer just such a thing, folded or monosteel with very basic grip and scabbard (very much like shirasaya), for under a hundred dollars/euros. I have one of the last monosteel ones still waiting for me to make it some nicer furniture, and it's a beauty in all its plainness. No idea at all why they dropped it. I wonder the same thing about why they kept making cheaper and cheaper Korean swords, I think they are on version 5 now Korean swords are even more underrepresented. I was looking for one a few months ago. I found a site that sold them but the lowest price was still over $1000. KoA has a very basic looking one and that's it. One option out of their entire catalog. There need to be more Korean swords offered at an affordable price. Hanwei would be a good candidate to offer something like this.
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