|
Post by RickDastardly on Oct 16, 2017 1:02:40 GMT
A link to the main website: www.gov.uk/government/consultations/offensive-and-dangerous-weapons-new-legislationThere are a few main points: 1. Banning sending knives (and possible swords) through the post in the UK. 2. Banning more types of knife by classifying them as 'automatic' knives. Flick knives are already banned. We think this will include any one-handed manual opener along with assisted openers. 3. Making simply owning any banned item illegal, even in the home which at the moment is still legal. So, simply owning those one-handed knives, and possibly katanas and other curved blade swords, and all the various martial arts accessories which were banned from purchase/carry etc but still legal to keep in the house, will suddenly make one a criminal. 4. Possibly broadening powers of search and seizure in homes (this is not really mentioned in these documents but is already being discussed as the next step to prosecute those who have the newly-banned items). They also have an online survey with quite cleverly worded questions. The basic answer is 'no' to every question, then justify in the comments. One of the main errors to point out is the repeated use of the word 'weapon' when referring to knives and tools. They are only weapons when used as such. Even the police firearms teams admit that firearms held for sporting and hunting purposes are called firearms... not 'weapons'. It's a deliberate tactic I've seen used often in this context by the government. What they are talking about banning etc are tools and sporting equipment, not weapons. Also bear in mind that the track record in these things is to word the law to be as broadly interpretative as possible. Then the courts can catch more things and make them illegal by case law as they come up. That's how lock knives were made illegal for EDC when a court ruled that they were the same as a fixed blade. Someone on another forum was claiming that the part about broadening the definition of a flick knife would still only apply to knives with springs to deploy the blade. That's rubbish; the purpose is to enable the courts to ban any one-handed opener, like Spydercos with the hole, thumbstuds, etc. Anyway, this is the survey link for anyone who wants to spend ten minutes on it: www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffice.gov.uk/s/WX2TN/
|
|
stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
|
Post by stormmaster on Oct 16, 2017 2:43:29 GMT
i have a problem with not allowing people to have curved blades at home, thats a total violation of privacy, like i can own whatever i want at home as long as i dont wave it around in public
|
|
|
Post by RickDastardly on Oct 17, 2017 19:44:43 GMT
The survey itself is underhanded. It's worded in such a way that it would seem unreasonable to disagree with the question (answer 'no'). What we are all doing is answering 'no' to it all and justifying that with why the question itself is wrong in many cases. For instance the insistence on referring to bladed tools as weapons.
At the end of the day, the survey will likely just be number-crunched for statistics and if it agrees with the government, it will be used. If not, it will probably be ignored. Still, if we can at least stop it being used to justify the bans, that's something.
Let's hope someone with some actual sense has a chat with the wicked witch and they back down a little on things. We can hope.
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Oct 18, 2017 0:26:40 GMT
I think people in the UK, apart from fighting all its weapons legislation, should start training stick fighting and hand to hand combat religiously. It's so silly to ban the tools people use in crime and yet ignore how defenseless you're leaving the vast majority of law abiding citizens. I'm not really that big of a gun or knife nut but really, a person without weapons is a future victim.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Oct 18, 2017 3:25:22 GMT
Haha, the bad guys can simply make blades. NASTY ones that are long, sharp, heavy, though maybe not the greatest fit and finish. You gonna ban one of mans oldest tools? Just sharpen a lawn mower blade and your a head hunting psychopath straight out of a horror show...or Billy Bob Thornton's imagination (Ummm Hmmmm, biscuits, taters, and canned meat).
|
|
|
Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Oct 18, 2017 4:04:37 GMT
You know it's for you own good.
|
|
stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
|
Post by stormmaster on Oct 18, 2017 4:41:36 GMT
prohibition didnt work very well here in the states so im sure people will find a way lol, thank god for booze, and swords
|
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 9,820
Member is Online
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 18, 2017 5:00:29 GMT
... thank god for booze, and swords Amen! (the Official SBG Evening Prayer)
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 18, 2017 5:35:50 GMT
Why? I've never understood the want to ban ownership of weapons. On the surface it can seem safe, but once you scratch the ground floor you're really only hurting the law abiding by not allowing them to own something they could defend themselves with.
And besides, weapons are easy to make. As howler said just put some hockey tape on a lawnmower blade and sharpen it up, boom you got a sword.
Also, a terrorist obviously doesn't care about laws. It's not like they'll say, "oh no Achmed, they outlawed -insert item-, guess we can't be baddies anymore"
|
|
|
Post by Robert on Oct 18, 2017 14:05:34 GMT
My worst fear is this spreading to other countries. At the moment we in Poland have basically no knife laws at all (except wearing them to big public events) and yet there are no stabbings, no gangs killing themselves etc.
The problem is always with the society, and not tools. I use my knives for collection purposes, as well as food prep and daily cutting tasks.
UK gov is just fearmongering and trying to show that they are doing something about the terrorism, when they dont. They ban the tool, not prosecute the perpetrator. Especially since there are way more acid attacks than knife attacks. But in our current world any sort of sharp object is seen as a weapon.
I'm 17, and I was asked if I am going to murder someone for carrying a SWISS ARMY KNIFE, which is like, the most safe looking knife money can buy. And I often get "the look" for being an EDC person. This worries me deeply
|
|
|
Post by Cosmoline on Oct 18, 2017 17:37:03 GMT
I won't go to the UK for any HEMA events because of nonsense like this. I've been doing Germany instead and may visit some folks in Italy next year. Of course continental Europe isn't the wild west of weapons, but they seem to be both more clear and more sensible in their regulations. I've gotten no flak at all and feel no particular fear carrying sparring blunts around on trains and checking them in planes. The rules are pretty clear. In England, on the other hand, the government seems determined to have police give people the third degree and leaves prosecution for anything up to and including a butter knife entirely discretionary. So if you don't pass whatever smell test is instituted that day of the week, you can be arrested. Really f'd up way to run law enforcement.
It's a shame because visiting the UK has been a dream of mine for most of my life. But unless I opt to avoid any swordplay while there, or find some way of storing the non-weapons before reaching their customs, I really don't want to risk it.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 18, 2017 19:36:26 GMT
The problem is always with the society, and not tools. This is the final word on the subject. Late Victorian Britain had no gun laws at all (children could buy cheap revolvers at the local blacksmith shop). School/mass shootings were unheard of in that era, and I'm sure the death rate from crime was far, far lower than that of any modern country. If we, as a society, are suffering from violence, then we need to find out what it is about our society that is causing people to act that way. Fix the cause: trying to take away the means is an exercise in futility. Because people who are bent on committing violence will always find a way. Acid, trucks, baseball/cricket bats, crowbars, pipes, bare hands, rock-in-a-sock... the list goes and on and on. Anything can be used as a weapon.
|
|
|
Post by Robert on Oct 18, 2017 19:49:56 GMT
The problem is always with the society, and not tools. This is the final word on the subject. Late Victorian Britain had no gun laws at all (children could buy cheap revolvers at the local blacksmith shop). School/mass shootings were unheard of in that era, and I'm sure the death rate from crime was far, far lower than that of any modern country. If we, as a society, are suffering from violence, then we need to find out what it is about our society that is causing people to act that way. Fix the cause: trying to take away the means is an exercise in futility. Because people who are bent on committing violence will always find a way. Acid, trucks, baseball/cricket bats, crowbars, pipes, bare hands, rock-in-a-sock... the list goes and on and on. Anything can be used as a weapon. Ironically enough crime rates (at least for the US, thats what I have been able to find out quickly) are the LOWEST at the present day. And have been decreasing since the late XXcentury.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Oct 18, 2017 20:08:50 GMT
... thank god for booze, and swords Amen! (the Official SBG Evening Prayer) Haha, booze and blades. Course, dinner cutlery was introduced, and rounded by king (Henry the Vlll, but don't quote me) due to people using their own nasty sharp stuff that was on them to not only cut the meat, but cut off noses, ears, and other appendages of the person they were engaged with during the drunken feast.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 18, 2017 20:22:05 GMT
This is the final word on the subject. Late Victorian Britain had no gun laws at all (children could buy cheap revolvers at the local blacksmith shop). School/mass shootings were unheard of in that era, and I'm sure the death rate from crime was far, far lower than that of any modern country. If we, as a society, are suffering from violence, then we need to find out what it is about our society that is causing people to act that way. Fix the cause: trying to take away the means is an exercise in futility. Because people who are bent on committing violence will always find a way. Acid, trucks, baseball/cricket bats, crowbars, pipes, bare hands, rock-in-a-sock... the list goes and on and on. Anything can be used as a weapon. Ironically enough crime rates (at least for the US, thats what I have been able to find out quickly) are the LOWEST at the present day. And have been decreasing since the late XXcentury. I can definitely see that for the U.S. - the frontier was always a crazy place, and was only really "tamed" at the very end of the 19th century. Then you had Prohibition and all that. But I was referring specifically to Victorian era England - I'm sure the violent crime rate for England was higher than modern day even back in the 18th century.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Oct 18, 2017 20:22:45 GMT
You know it's for you own good. Yup..."for the children". The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
|
|
|
Post by bebut on Oct 24, 2017 0:08:46 GMT
Where you lost it was when "weapon" became a dirty word, the whole "sporting goods and collectibles " thing. Weapons are a specialized tool, used for good or evil depending on the user. They do not have independent will.
Behind the mirage of gun or knife control,it is really people control. They want you weak and dependent on the state.
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 24, 2017 5:59:02 GMT
] I wonder what kind of bubble these people live in. The never have to live a normal life bubble, never have to struggle for money bubble, the chastise folks for being immoral while chasing down hypocrisy with gluttony bubble, And always looking for a scape goat and easy solution bubble. At least that's what I think.
|
|
|
Post by RickDastardly on Oct 24, 2017 9:56:47 GMT
I completely agree with both the above posts.
I believe we have been trained to be the way we are in England for centuries. I was raised to be proud of being English, of our history, to respect our government, laws and police etc.
The more I have seen of life, people in general and our whole system here, and even study our history a little, the more of that I lose every day. There is almost none left. It really is quite sobering... (pass the rum!)
On the knife/sword legislation issue, it amazed me how many knife-using people were just apathetic about it all. I mean people like in the bushcrafting community who carry and use knives frequently. Some seem of the opinion that since they don't use any of the knives that (they think) might be banned, then it's fine and so what about anyone else? Likewise about needing to have knives delivered to a commercial address; I'm alright Jack!
No thought for people not in their position, or with different interests, and lack of belief that things could actually get worse and they would lose their knives too at some point.
Not everyone of course, but I started discussing this right at the beginning and was shocked at just who much apathetic opposition there was to doing anything.
/rant.
On a better note, there are some people trying to fight this stupidity and there have been a few positive things I've heard recently. Hopefully we might get a bit of common sense injected in the process. We can hope!
|
|
|
Post by RickDastardly on Oct 27, 2017 4:36:44 GMT
... "Run! It's a politician!" Brilliant... that's given me my first, best laugh of today!
|
|