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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 15:55:09 GMT
Guys, i need some input on this thing here... offered as a "Meiji-period" katana imported "directly" from Japan, 3.000 Euros straight - but no papers, nothing(!) AFAIK! I am sniffing some rippy ripping off here... Experts are kindly asked for GO and give info please!
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 17, 2017 19:46:30 GMT
Pictures aren't the best, but from what I can see it looks like a legitimate sword, at least. Hamon is the only thing I can make out, but it looks promising.
As for the rest, Meiji is kinda weird because, as far as I know, swords were pretty heavily restricted at that point, or at some point during. Meiji ran from 1868 to 1912, so it's a pretty decent period of time but there was a lot of goings-on in Japan.
Furniture could be easily 100+ years old, nakago not much older than 150 if that, overall condition is pretty good but I can't read the available inscription so I'll leave smith/school etc to others.
Is it very likely a real Japanese sword about 100-150 years old? Looks to be. Is it a good (well-made) sword? Uh...maybe? I dunno, probably. Is it worth €3000? Not to me, no.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Sept 17, 2017 21:38:24 GMT
isn't it really hard to resell these kinda things without papers?
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 17, 2017 22:27:47 GMT
Nope. Papers are hardly a requirement, though if one wants to claim providence, papers help. Papers can be forged, too, so there's that.
Mumei stuff is often unpapered, but gimei may not get papered.
Now, asking €3000 (about $3600 US) for a sword usually warrants some documentation...
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Sept 18, 2017 13:02:10 GMT
Do you have better pics of it?
Good portion of the signature is in unreadable condition but with better signature picture I could try to look at it and guess something.
Only thing about it I personally find interesting on it based on those pics is the saya. That kashira picture is only good one, other than that you can't see much details on any other picture. It looks to me that it is a Japanese sword, looks like someone might have cleaned the tang as it looks spotty (and bubbles?)? I wouldn't risk spending any money without any good pictures, those ones would not make it. I might offer something like 1000€'s but seller would most likely laugh at my face. I don't see much collectable value in that sword, with better pics my opinion might change a bit.
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Post by stopped1 on Sept 18, 2017 13:16:56 GMT
The tang reads "濃州XXXX字源天XX", I think I can make out "濃州関X一文字源天秀..." SO venture a guess 濃州関住一文字源天秀鍛之 (noshu seki ju ichimonji minamoto amahide kitau kore)
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Post by stopped1 on Sept 18, 2017 13:20:19 GMT
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Sept 18, 2017 13:36:23 GMT
Nice reading Stopped! I think you are correct on Amahide. The missing portion would then not make "too much" difference as I believe there is pretty much only 1 smith in books signing with 天秀 Amahide with these characters.
This Amahide was born 1886 and died 1973. Would be nice to see more pictures if the koshirae is made for this sword or mashed together. If it is made for this I'd think this is after wartime sword made for martial arts use. Hard to say much without seeing much.
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Post by stopped1 on Sept 18, 2017 14:00:43 GMT
Hehe, I usually leave you to do all the translation on SBG, but when I saw the "ji" in ichimonji I raised an eyebrow, then I saw the "Seki" and typical Showa mei strokes (although somewhat better than average), was enough to search by then
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 18, 2017 17:53:39 GMT
1886 to 1973 range offering? 3600UsD? I say nope. That's ridiculous to me.
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Post by vermithrax on Sept 18, 2017 22:16:28 GMT
Great work on reading the mei!
No papers, condition not that great, looks a bit short as well. $3600 can get you a much better sword.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 19:57:04 GMT
By now he has at least customs papers for exporting the sword... well for me its just a letter with japanese glyphs! Could also be a sushi recipe... Nevertheless, thanx very much for the input and knowledge, guys! Attachments:
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 19, 2017 21:13:49 GMT
Yeah, can't read most of that myself, but at least it gives some dimensions. What I can read declares a katana with 67.9cm nagasa, 2cm sori, one mekugi-ana. Also what I believe to be a transcription of the mei, which is nice.
Still wouldn't pay that kind of money for it, but it's not a terrible sword.
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Post by stopped1 on Sept 20, 2017 0:17:58 GMT
That is not export paper, likely a color copy of registration paper. Pretty much just tells you it is handmade not non traditional gunto. They are handed in upon export....
It just states the mei but doesn't say if the mei is legit (think all the suke hiro mei) this is not shinsa paper.....
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Sept 20, 2017 11:44:45 GMT
The pricing on Japanese swords can be wild, heck I've been collecting them pretty much my whole life so far and I sometimes can't say why something is valued at 3000 and something 10000 (meaning I have no idea). Sometimes sword made in 1990's is a lot more valuable than a sword made in 1300's. Seems crazy to me too but market dictates the prices.
I am not really into these new swords and I cannot say if the signature on that Amahide is legitimate.. He was RJT smith, that shows his rank but I don't think the is among the most famous wartime smiths. I don't really dig things after 1600, so I don't know much about how highly these new smiths are valuated. I remember seeing that Amahide that Stopped linked earlier few times over the years as it has been owned by few friends in Finland. There are many people who collect new swords but I like old ones and I can't fully understand the value many new swords have.
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Post by stopped1 on Sept 20, 2017 13:17:29 GMT
I thought about it again, maybe the price isn't too bad. I am more an Iaidoka than a collector. If the blade length/sori happens to be right (one must be fairly short for this sword tho) and feels good in the hand and both saya/tsuka are newly made. Not a bad price at all. $1200 for the blade, $1200 for the polish (that is CHEAP), $1200 for mounting with same wrapped saya and decent tsuka. It will last me many many years there after.....
I do think I can do better with that kind of money for my collection tho
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Post by treeslicer on Sept 21, 2017 0:07:54 GMT
The pricing on Japanese swords can be wild, heck I've been collecting them pretty much my whole life so far and I sometimes can't say why something is valued at 3000 and something 10000 (meaning I have no idea). Sometimes sword made in 1990's is a lot more valuable than a sword made in 1300's. Seems crazy to me too but market dictates the prices. I am not really into these new swords ........... I don't really dig things after 1600,...............There are many people who collect new swords but I like old ones and I can't fully understand the value many new swords have. Good man, sound reasoning. If it's not a koto, Chinese can look as good, cut as well, won't chip like porcelain, and costs a whole lot less than shinto and gendaito. IMHO, the market, being predominantly based on an irrational urge to own swords, is itself irrational. Prices in the collectible tsuba and fuchigashira markets are even less understandable than those in the market for blades, BTW.
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