Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 3:39:19 GMT
I am still a little confused by the sword care guide on the main site. It obviously recommended the accusharp as a newbie sharpening device, but then again I've also heard that having a secondary bevel is a very bad thing for the blade. Is it generally recommendable to use an accusharp?
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Jun 9, 2008 4:19:02 GMT
Depends on who you ask, Bob. I'd say no.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 8:28:12 GMT
Some of the things I'd consider when using an accusharp (or similar tool) is how thick the blade edge is (a thick edge transitioning to a 45 degree angle isn't going to cut that well) and how valuable the blade is (it's probably worth spending more time and effort on a blade that is special to you). That said it will put a serviceable edge on a piece of metal and with enough cutting practice it will probably perform quite well - that is to say, I feel that the secondary bevel like you get from the accusharp might be less forgiving than a primary bevel or a secondary bevel at a more acute angle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 14:41:13 GMT
I would not recommend the Accusharp for a sword and here is why.
I ordered a Medieval Knight sword as reviewed on SBG. I also ordered the accusharp and planned to sharpen it as recommended and demonstrated. I was very unhappy with the results.
Clamped carefully in a vise and started the strokes. Over time a substantial amount of metal had to be removed, no problem expected that. When blade was finally sharp, the edges looked a mess. You could really see where there were places the cutters removed metal 1/8" wide and other places on the blade edge where the marks were much less. Sharp? Yes, ..... but it really didn't look good at all.
I was very careful to make my strokes properly, each one. I was careful not to push too hard. I think what happened is the accusharp just follows the line of what is there. If the blade edge has inconsistencies in thickness or symmetry, it just follows that, cutting and amplifying that inconsistency.
I ended up taking a real fine stone and cleaning it up, but if I had it to do over again I would not have used the Accusharp.
Great for other tools and cheap knives, but I would not recommend it for a sword.
|
|
|
Post by 293master293 on Jun 9, 2008 15:00:31 GMT
They are great for touching up a katana with a dulled edge. Since the katana already has a good bevel, the Accusharp does not change the geometry too much at all. It also does not leave the nasty scratches like it does on swords that have no edge at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 16:47:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jun 9, 2008 16:47:52 GMT
To set this straight (hopefully):
An accusharp is OK if: you have a previously sharp sword, and need to touch up the edge. In this case the secondary bevel would be hardly visible, and not a bad thing at all.
An Accusharp is terrible if : you buy a Darksword. Get a Beltsander for about $10 more. I use a hand held beltsander ($35), clamp it upright in a vice, and just run the full length of the edge over it at various appropriate angles. Keep it from getting hot. Maybe finish off with a diamond stone to smooth off the grain, and give a nice edge. Don't try sharpening a DSA or a Hanwei Practical with a file, you'll be at it forever (8 hours or so). A DSA or Hanwei Practical with a secondary bevel is not really a proper sword geometry.
An accusharp is of some use if: You buy a windlass, but they have such a fine edge that you should just burn the extra 6 calories and use a file, so as to get a more even edge. The secondary bevel you get on a windlass is acceptable, due to it's slim geometry.
An accusharp is not really appropriate if: you are retouching a katana. A few gentle strokes with a diamond stone is better, and it can be held at a very shallow angle to keep the kat geometry. Secondry bevels not so good on a kat.
From my experience with an accusharp it does give a pretty messy edge, and is a short cut, but hardly worth it. An affordable alternative is to get a belt sander (from $35), a smooth file (from $8), and a diamond stone (diamond impregnated metal block - from $10).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 19:58:29 GMT
awesome thanks. I used it on my new Gen2 black prince. not sure if i like the results.
EDIT: i think for now i'm just gonna go grab an SLO and practice sharpening with it. anybody know where to get a nice solid SLO that won't put a big dent in my pocket?
|
|
|
Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jun 9, 2008 20:05:04 GMT
yeah www.budk.com or as some might call it ..... wallangers'r'us
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 20:08:24 GMT
They are great for touching up a katana with a dulled edge. Since the katana already has a good bevel, the Accusharp does not change the geometry too much at all. It also does not leave the nasty scratches like it does on swords that have no edge at all. While i'm unsure of the effect an accusharp would have on a European style blade,... i am very certain that for a Japanese style blade this is never a good idea. Even for "beaters"...Because of the seemingly "straight, or nearly straight" geometry on European swords with little to no bevel the accusharp may work on them. The edge angle is a lot less shallow which could almost match the shaving angle of the accusharp... But i'm no expert,... just an observation.
This drawing is something i whipped up in a few minutes,... the actual mathematical calculations on the blade geometry vs. the target being cut probably differs slightly. But i believe this is the basic principle of what happens when a secondary bevel is incorporated.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 22:08:19 GMT
good to know. damn. this sharpening business is going to make a dent on my wallet. damn expensive hobby.
|
|
Razor
Member
Review Points: 55
Today is tomorrow but not yet yesterday
Posts: 501
|
Post by Razor on Jun 10, 2008 2:57:01 GMT
Trueswordsman sharpened one of his Windlass's swords with a accusharp. I got to cut with it on the movie set. It cut the water bottle but I felt a little drag.
For a Windlass it would be easier and faster than a file. What I would do is start with the accusharp and then sand the secondary bevel and then use a hand stone(I like to use DMT sharpeners) to finish the edge.
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on Jun 10, 2008 19:07:03 GMT
Accusharp tools can remove a lot of metal quickly. I had previously responded to another such thread pretty much verbatim what Razor has shared. I look at them as another tool in the box and have used them to cut initial bevels because they can hog off metal faster than a file. Others have indicated having luck with using them very lightly but the inherent characteristic of a preset angle means very careful control and pressure are required. There is a Boker variation that I have recommended before for those that choose to experiment with the devices. It's advantages over the Accusharp are two-fold. First, is that the sharpening surfaces are spring loaded and will adjust to any existing blade's crossectional geometry. The second is that along with carbide "rippers", the other side has ceramic inserts for finer sharpening. Here is a good image. There is a plastic version that is cheaper and I'm using this link more as illustrative than as endorsement of the vendor (or even the product) www.knivesplus.com/bokersharpenerbk-hs1.htmlI'm simply bringing that up as an alternative to the various hones and Accusharp like devices that have preset angles. Some also have good luck with the small pocket hones with the two little ceramic inserts. The same underlying limitations apply but at least the ceramic types will be less abusive to a fine edge than the carbide insert variety. Once accustomed to a given system, it can be pretty subjective as to what the best methods are. Someone also mentioned a puck in this thread and I agree whole heartedly that those would suit most that "get it". I don't say that to be patronizing but remember that many asking about sharpening a sword have never even sharpened a knife. What may compound the issues is that even though Paul has offered up a pretty decent sharpening primer on the front page of SBG, folk are looking for the least expensive and foolproof methodology. As is often the case, folk gravitate to the least expensive and apparently straight forward solutions. Sharpening will never be inexpensive (learning, cost,labor) or quite straight forward until one has some practical experience. I will say (as I always do); if you have never sharpened a knife, don't start the learning process by attempting to sharpen a sword. The Accusharp instructions on the SBG page are pretty straight forward but the result is often exactly what initiated this thread. Sharpening is second only to the great oil debates in the course of frequently asked questions. There are lots of ways to get it done and get it done well. I am also repeating myself in saying after fourty-six odd years of using blades and sharpening them, I still pick up new tricks, even if my preferences (and still occasional blunders) have been pretty well established for at least the past decade or so. I received my Accusharp in the early 1990s already knowing what to expect and never considered using it on a finished edge but can understand why some have been able to justify using it as a final stage (an extremely light and controlled use of it). My last criticism of the SBG guide regarding it is that it (last time I looked) indicates the sharpening inserts are ceramic. That is/was incorrect and I sumbmitted feedback regarding it. The inserts are of a carbide steel that will rip lesser steel alloys to shreds and that is what we see time and again as an operational difficulty when using them. It can also be used to one's advantage and that is where roughing in a bevel with one made it worthwhile for me in adding one to my kit many years ago. Cheers Hotspur; frankly suprised at how quickly I managed to use up a coarse DMT plate (it was longer lasting than an EZ-Lap)
|
|