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Post by jeff190 on May 10, 2017 17:48:55 GMT
Hi, guys: I'm very much into nihonto recently and want to pick up my first one very carefully. I got one last week but unfortunately there were some small things I don't like and got it returned. Now after looking at many dealer's websites, there are a few candidates at a close price range and I like to choose one from them. I know it's kind of personal taste at a certain point but still I wonder if anyone can provide any suggestions or simply which one you like better? Thanks in advance. No.1: No.2: No.3: No.4: No.5: No.6:
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Post by treeslicer on May 10, 2017 18:24:31 GMT
No. 3. No question about it. Haven't tried to place what's left of the mei, but it looks like a Sengoku era suriage with a very interesting hamon. Could have taken some heads at Sekigahara. IMHO, koto are better than shinto or gendaito anyway.
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Post by Richard Arias on May 10, 2017 19:26:17 GMT
I like 4 for its practical side. But don't like that most are Mumei or partial mei. It's not how its made but who made it. And I would prefer prefer a newer sword with a complete traceable Mei than some blade without one that some appraisal says is from an Era. I think that is the biggest joke of Antique sword collection. The paperwork saying "yeah we think this school and era".... Just so you can pay a premium for a "?" Sword.
5 and 6 look to have full Mei and I think that is a good bet for a start. Many will tell you to go older... But I urge you not to fall for that assuming the signed blades are not Gimei as that happens a lot these days. At the end of the day once a blade is forged and polished you can't tell Tamahagane from another steel. Nor can you really see age. Appraisers guess based off character in style of the make and the tang rust ex. In the lack of a signature.
But at the end of the day which sword do you like? It's your money. If your buying something based on what others think and not what it says to you personally I would say it would not fulfill you at all.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 10, 2017 19:51:24 GMT
I think most important thing is to know what you buy and why. Every reason is as good as another and tastes vary. As I knew by picture what the N.2 sword is well I can say few words about each. Just my personal opinion and it should not count for anything more than that especially as I have my own peculiar taste. You should not be scared that none of these really hit my buttons, all of them are well collectable swords in their own right. My own collecting taste is just focused on some specific things. 1. Jumyō - attributed to not too highly regarded school in overall (which means you can sometimes get good deals on them as some overlook them similar like I usually do). It is a mumei Shinshintō which is not desirable. Condition looks good, koshirae looks good. But personally I don't see this as very desirable collecting wise. But as a package it is very nice. 2. Kai-Mihara - Mihara is good school but it has to take note that this is attributed to late Muromachi Kai-Mihara and Kai-Mihara is the least desirable from Mihara. Mumei late Muromachi sword in decent condition and I really like the koshirae & shape. This has been for sale for a long long time. My favorite of the bunch but I don't think this is an "awesome deal" as it has been sitting in the inventory for few years if I recall correctly so that would indicate the asking price is over the market and likewise I always felt it's too expensive for me. 3. Heianjō Ishidō Masatoshi - Decently well rated Shintō smith, suriage (shortening) is always not desirable in Shintō & newer. I am not good to say stuff about newer swords as I don't focus on these. Decent condition, I dislike this shape personally but some will like this shape. Koshirae not my taste at all 4. Izumi no Kami Rai Kinmichi - Like I said I don't know enough about these new smith to give proper reasoning. Suriage does not help with value and this is where research should be done as NBTHK just verifies the signature likewise in this case no additional information is given on the paper. Dealer places it to 3rd gen who is smith supposedly similar level to smith above. 5 generations of smiths 1 & 2 very good (you won't get at these prices), 3rd is good 4 & 5 lesser known. Condition looks nothing to be too much cheered for. 5. Suketoshi & Hidetoshi - This seems to be sold. Thought this was good one and probably was my N.2 pick 6. Sa Kunimitsu & Masakuni - Looks like a decent deal. These new ones are not my strong point. So guess my numbering might be 2,5,6,4,3,1
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Post by Verity on May 10, 2017 19:55:25 GMT
2.
What other dealers have you looked at? There are a number of sources to shop from.
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Post by jeff190 on May 10, 2017 20:06:00 GMT
Thanks, guys! No.1 - No.4 all have NBTHK hozon. I'm not sure if 5 and 6 have one.
I prefer Suguha hamon a little bit more than Gunome, and kind of like smaller sori. But my taste changes with more I learned about katana. Actually, I'm fine with all the above sowrds, but due to my limited knowledge, I don't know which one has a better Jihada or better tempering, and that's where I need some guidance.
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Post by jeff190 on May 10, 2017 20:09:16 GMT
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Post by Verity on May 10, 2017 20:13:44 GMT
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Post by jeff190 on May 10, 2017 20:16:30 GMT
I think most important thing is to know what you buy and why. Every reason is as good as another and tastes vary. As I knew by picture what the N.2 sword is well I can say few words about each. Just my personal opinion and it should not count for anything more than that especially as I have my own peculiar taste. You should not be scared that none of these really hit my buttons, all of them are well collectable swords in their own right. My own collecting taste is just focused on some specific things. 1. Jumyō - attributed to not too highly regarded school in overall (which means you can sometimes get good deals on them as some overlook them similar like I usually do). It is a mumei Shinshintō which is not desirable. Condition looks good, koshirae looks good. But personally I don't see this as very desirable collecting wise. But as a package it is very nice. 2. Kai-Mihara - Mihara is good school but it has to take note that this is attributed to late Muromachi Kai-Mihara and Kai-Mihara is the least desirable from Mihara. Mumei late Muromachi sword in decent condition and I really like the koshirae & shape. This has been for sale for a long long time. My favorite of the bunch but I don't think this is an "awesome deal" as it has been sitting in the inventory for few years if I recall correctly so that would indicate the asking price is over the market and likewise I always felt it's too expensive for me. 3. Heianjō Ishidō Masatoshi - Decently well rated Shintō smith, suriage (shortening) is always not desirable in Shintō & newer. I am not good to say stuff about newer swords as I don't focus on these. Decent condition, I dislike this shape personally but some will like this shape. Koshirae not my taste at all 4. Izumi no Kami Rai Kinmichi - Like I said I don't know enough about these new smith to give proper reasoning. Suriage does not help with value and this is where research should be done as NBTHK just verifies the signature likewise in this case no additional information is given on the paper. Dealer places it to 3rd gen who is smith supposedly similar level to smith above. 5 generations of smiths 1 & 2 very good (you won't get at these prices), 3rd is good 4 & 5 lesser known. Condition looks nothing to be too much cheered for. 5. Suketoshi & Hidetoshi - This seems to be sold. Thought this was good one and probably was my N.2 pick 6. Sa Kunimitsu & Masakuni - Looks like a decent deal. These new ones are not my strong point. So guess my numbering might be 2,5,6,4,3,1 I couldn't ask for more information than what you gave! This is so helpful! Thx So it seems even your best rating one (No.2) is overpriced, I should probably keep looking instead of making the decision among these
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Post by Robert in California on May 10, 2017 20:33:39 GMT
Personally, they all look nice though .3. has less sori/curve than my personal tastes like. I'd be happy with .1. if all things were equal. This is just from a sword student viewpoint, not from a collector's viewpoint. And it is hard to choose a "sword student sword" from pics in any case. For that, it is best to actually hold and get a feel of the sword first...see how it feels in use. (yes...with nihonto..can be very hard when the sword is far away) Just my 2 bits. RinC (p.s. My sword teacher long ago, choose my Shinshinto for me...only 27 1/2"...kind of short for me I thought at the time...but as Shinshinto's can be, it was heavy...)
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Post by Robert in California on May 10, 2017 20:35:01 GMT
p.s. #2 boshi concerns me...seems to be too thin.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 10, 2017 21:01:45 GMT
The thing about pricing is very difficult as people value different things. Like I said earlier my views are bit skewed as I have focused my collecting to more narrow field so I could easily overpay within my own preferences and not think that as big deal where as I would not necessarily see some of the great deals outside my range as good deals. For example you can see how quickly the N.5 was sold so it was definately a good deal. I checked and the N.2 Kai-Mihara has been for sale for at least bit over a year now for 430,000Y. So maybe not as long as I thought or not sure if robots hadn't tracked it before that. The difficult thing is because there are hundreds of great swords to choose from you really need to pick your poison. As that particular blade does not fit what I am aiming to collect then the price would need to come down for me a lot. I am not sure if I personally would go for it even for 300,000Y as at that range they have this Gassan tanto for example that I would rather go for: www.samuraishokai.jp/sword/17606.html However someone else would rate that ate 300,000Y as much better buy than the Gassan tanto that I would go for. Of course in reality I would not spend 300,000Y to either of these but save it for another sword. So I think all that matters is you aim to get a sword that you like. And in reality you can expect to pay bit too much when you buy from big dealers but you will get good sword in return. Especially the Japanese dealers know the market prices much better than most people. I think you have a good start in looking for sword with suguha hamon and small sori. And I assume you are looking a sword that has koshirae?
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Post by treeslicer on May 11, 2017 0:53:59 GMT
Oh, well. Blew that kantei out my ears.
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Post by vermithrax on May 11, 2017 1:40:14 GMT
I know discovering nihonto is wildly exciting and get's one moving. I was there too.
I was looking to buy a hand forged katana months back, and found out about antique swords still available. I had no idea there was a market, figured it was so lost in time only a few remained.
I lucked out on my first buy, but since have studied and learned so much.
If you want a nihonto: 1. What can you spend 2. Are papers (NBTHK, NTH etc) important 3. What school do you find attractive to your tastes 4. With wild variation in sizes, curves, fittings etc what do you really want
Settle all that, and then proceed.
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Post by Verity on May 11, 2017 5:05:52 GMT
I know discovering nihonto is wildly exciting and get's one moving. I was there too. I was looking to buy a hand forged katana months back, and found out about antique swords still available. I had no idea there was a market, figured it was so lost in time only a few remained. I lucked out on my first buy, but since have studied and learned so much. If you want a nihonto: 1. What can you spend 2. Are papers (NBTHK, NTH etc) important 3. What school do you find attractive to your tastes 4. With wild variation in sizes, curves, fittings etc what do you really want Settle all that, and then proceed. Couldn't have said it better myself!
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