Martial Arts and Swords

Thanks Timo Nieminen. I am going to follow the German manuals then. Let's see where I a can get.

Ok so guys, I have decided the German Tradition is more me.
Plus, I have seen that the longsword is usually paired with daggers in this tradition too.

So, two new questions:

1- I have decided to make a pair of wooden swords. I will use them to practice forms and spar. We will of course wear 'THICK' jackets, gloves, motorcycle helmets etc.
Should I do something else here or is my path fine? (I will compile a schedule of training after 15th June, once my exams are done. I need to balance unarmed practice with weapon training, which are long sword, dagger, knife, Mai Sok Sawn, tomahawk, sarong and maybe Ngaw, and conditioning, while keeping my medical studies at the top. So the learning process will be SLOW)

2- I have really gotten fond of the type XVIIIb, but a little more cutting oriented design type. Saw examples done by LG and a few others. So, any production beater swords for cutting practice that are like near $500? Before I decide on a custom one.

I was planning on making them closer in weight to real swords frankly, but I will start lighter I guess.

I was thinking about the full contact thing. If a soft, elastic material is added to the tip, wouldn't it be safer with full protection on? I have practiced full contact Ngaw this way and didn't have problems?




This gives me ideas, for a lot of DIY projects I have in mind. Thanks for lighting the bulb 💡 👍

Lightweight sparring weapons can work well, but you want something full weight for forms/solo work/controlled partner drills. You can even use full weight weapons for controlled slower-than-full-speed sparring (with suitable protection), and switch to light weapons for controlled closer-to-full-speed sparring (with suitable protection). Somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 the weight of the real weapon seems to work OK. Lighter can still work, but takes more discipline to treat it and move it like the real thing.

Padding tips (and padding the rest to allow hard "cuts") can work. Enough padding can make the weapons fat and bulky, so it isn't perfect. The big advantage is that you can use full weight weapon simulators, and go full speed and hard with fairly light protection (see Lancelot Chan's swords www.rsw.com.hk/ and his videos (many of which he links here)).

Without padded tips (and maybe "edges"), if you have wooden weapons the same weight as steel, they're stiffer than steel swords, and you need very good protective gear.

I use spears with padded heads; these work well.

You know, I am kind of a big advocate of the awesomeness of TMA in all conditions. But having spent a considerable time in the system, I know the greater flaws in it like the back of my hand.
To give you an overview, Thai Martial Arts, in their traditional form, are termed as either Muay Boran or Muay Thai Brian or Toi Muay and as Krabi Krabong.
Muay Thai Boran is a large class term for the various styles of traditional martial art that existed long ago. These included Muay Chaiya, Muay Korat, Muay Lobpuri etc. These styles had regional differences, in their placement of focus on particular techniques or in their difference of stance and offense/defense. These were the major arts taught to the Body Guards of the Kings, and some basics of these were taught to the soldiers for unarmed needs in combat.
Around the 1940's (not the 1920-1930's as many believe), King Rama VII decided to add rules to the brutal and often fatal competitions held on the borders and for the selection of the Royal Guard. This gave birth to the modern art of sport 'Muay Thai' and to 'Muay Lao'. The only traditional arts that are more popular and known now are Muay Chaiya and Muay Thai. Muay Chaiya saw resurgence due to its age old proven self-defense techniques. However, many old masters from the Royal Guard quit during the military coup which brought King Rama IX (Bhumibol) to power and some of them, like my own Kruu, decided to start teaching on small scales so their arts may be preserved. The particular style I was taught is a mixture of Muay Korat, Muay Kiao Kuay and Muay Wanorn. I was perhaps one of the 4 students who has dedicatedly studied this art from him. I admit my laziness in training currently, but I have made plans to utilize my vacations to devise a schedule so that I may pick up my practice and also, be able to fulfill my medical education.
Oh, and currently, many of these older artists got together, including my Kruu, to unite their arts for military application. The result includes the art known as Muay Lerd Rit, which is being propagated by IMBA and Adjarn De Cesaris quite effectively.


On the other extreme end of the spectrum, we have Krabi Krabong. Now, as I said before, Muay Boran was exclusive to the Royal Guard and they studied and trained extensively. Krabi Krabong was the literal military art of the time. It includes two further aspects: weapons and takedowns. The wide belief that Muay Thai is a striking art is as correct as can be, but application of the same thinking to Muay Boran and Krabi Krabong is antithetical to the truth.

Weapons of Krabi Krabong include Phlongs (clubs really), Mai Sok Sawn (the ingeniously simple yet devastating Thai version of the Tonfa), Ngaw (Bladed Staff) and Krabi (Sword) and Krabong (staff). Krabi includes the Dha, with or without the Lo (shield). Of course, there was archery, etc for the army. Daab Song Mue, the dual wielding, was also common but the soldiers armed like this usually entered the fray at the back of the main army, after the arrow volleys and cavalry was dealt with. They were the boon to your average foot soldier, since they could quickly swarm and slice you to bits.
According to my own research and the words of the historians in Thailand and US I had the pleasure of speaking to, most of the art is lost. What is being practiced is what the few, like Colonel Nittapong etc have preserved. So, the sword and knife arts don't survive much, but the Ngaw, Mai Sok and some of these weapons are still known to the few who saw it all, again, including my Kruu.

I learned the Sarong from him, which is actually Indonesian in origin. I learned the knife from him, the techniques of which are heavily fortified and foundationed by Eskrima. He even taught me to handle a gun, though only the basics 😂

So, I just wanted to point out that there is no set substance left to the art of the sword, although many, including myself and De Cesaris and Colonel Nittapong, are trying to re-discover them.

I just wanted to get familiar with an art like HEMA, since the reach and versatility of the longsword and dagger is naturally a big advantage compared to a practitioner of Daab Song Mue.

And there are the unarmed take downs of Krabi Krabong but I will delve in only if you are interested. I already ranted enough as is

No offense please and loved to share some info. 👍😁

Good information. Wasn't aware of a lot of that. I find it strange though that if you are so familiar with the system you think the sword and knife arts are weak? Also weak in terms of what? Their effectiveness? Or are you saying you think they are weak because they are not as complete as other systems? I mean while I respect Krabi Krabong and some practitioners are truly excellent it would not be my chosen art.

If I were choosing a knife style I like the knife techniques in Indonesian and Filipino martial arts. I am also a proponent of staff and spear and my favourite sword arts are chinese and polish with the addition of a shield or buckler.

When you look at it unless you focus on multiple systems within HEMA there will be holes and techniques will be lacking for certain weapons. There is some knife/dagger work in HEMA but you need to study different masters to get the full breadth of the technical knowledge for daggers, in my opinion. Well JSA is also weak in terms of knife combat techniques because most of the focus is on katanas/naginatas/longer weapons.I have a bit of an issue with this "proper" execution idea. I don't think there is any one single proper way to execute any technique. We are limited in the way our bodies can move and the directions and limitations of the movement of our limbs but beyond that there are multiple ways to do anything. If a technique does what you need it to do and you can execute it in such a way that it is practical and effective it seems a little arrogant to state that it wasn't or can't be properly executed.

So, I have largely deicided to get Lancelot's RSW Custom line longsword etc for sparring practice.

Two things new to consult on:
1- Is a wooden longsword appropriate for solo practice, drills and dummy hitting? Or should I opt for a blunted longsword? Saw the Regenyei line and am thinking of grabbing a blunted longsword for solo drills. Insights and info is welcome. I also need price details of an average blunt of his, since I couldn't find prices anywhere.


2- Same question as the one numbered 2 in my quoted post.

I am currently deciding which to actually buy. I am pretty sure about the RSW swords for sparring since that is easier for me to get and I can get a pair for about the same price. Plus, they work🙂

Two win problems with the steel versions of any swords (feder or not) is;
One, that they are more expensive to get and I need a pair. 
Two, the current 'weapons ban' on import means I can't justify me bringing in a steel sword since that's banned too. Don't think the customs will understand if I said it was not a weapon but a 'feder'. They are general a-holes that just wanna rip off as much as they can from you, in my country. 

I was asking wether the steel blunt longsword would be better for solo drills since it should give a proper and real feel, even if it isn't sharp and I don't spar with it.