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Post by berntk on May 1, 2017 17:14:08 GMT
Hi guys, I have to rehandle an 1845 sword, beacuse the wood has been almost totally obliterated by worms and rot. I have broken the peen, rethreaded the remnants of the tang, and made a new button. No problem. I also have whittled a new handle from birch, as that's what I had on hand. Still no problem, but then I ran into a challenge... The only skin with an approximate texture I had was a piece of samegawa/ rayskin from a Japanese project, and I cannot for the life of me manage to stretch it over the handle closest to the pommel, as circled in the attachment. (The sword pictured is a Staff Sergeant's sword, and not the blade in question.) It wrinkles and refuses to behave even when soaking wet. I have on order a piece of cheap black same, but I fear the result will be similar. It seems that rayskin is much too thick and stiff for this profile. Do you know what they used back in the day, and any source for that material? A very small shark? EDIT: Added a picture of the recalcitrant area. Bernt K
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 2, 2017 4:26:04 GMT
Shagreen. That is what is on those Officers sabre grips. It was used for covering of boxes, cases for glasses, cigar holders etc. And of course sabre grips for the gentry. Luxury articles and as such it makes a comeback today as table top, couch and chair covering. The nodes are very fine and the stuff itself is really thin, but very strong. It comes dyed and undyed. Easy to handle when wet. I think it was made from some ray, but could easely come from some other species of fish. Very en vogue in the 19th C. A good leather store should have it. It behaves much like cow leather when wet. You'll have to bind off the grip very tight to make the shagreen behave. The point is the aerea just after the piece that's under the pommel. That is where you get folds. I would start with very thin cow leather to get the method right. You'll have to bind off the entire grip, specially that part under the pommel grip. The best binding material I can think of is flat and about 8mm wide, like the stuff one uses on the tsuka of a katana. Forgot the name. Thin string may cut through the shagreen. Like you show it is more used for shaping. What you need is a compression fit. Be very careful because it takes some force to get it right. This kind of work was done by kids, while dad polished scabbards and mom sewed the leather encoutrements. Entire families worked for the local forge. If kids can do it, you can too. Cheers. Best thing you can do before you start is to Google around. If you look at cigar cases for instance you'll notice the roundness of the things. I think the shagreen was steamed and pressed on in that case. Sooner or later you'll find a tutorial on how to work with it. Good luck.
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Post by berntk on May 2, 2017 12:03:58 GMT
Thank you, Uhlan; Just the man I hoped to hear from. I have some experience with leatherwork, and I have mounted several Japanese swords, using same, but there are only simple curves on a tsuka, and cheating is always an option there . I'm going to wait until I get the cheap piece of rayskin, and experiment further with shoestring, and perhaps some old tsukaito. I'll see whether it's possible to shave the thickness down even further, and even boil, or almost boil, the leather before moulding. I live in provincial Norway, so I'm fully dependent on webshops/ ebay... B
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 2, 2017 12:53:08 GMT
Living in Norway eh? Than you should be lucky because shagreen is a by product of the fishing industry. If my memory is correct it is made from some species of bottom dwelling flat fish. Good shagreen is paper thin, so ideal for molding. Your Same is really too thick to get it correct in that inside corner of the grip. Plus, the backstrap may not fit anymore! Save yourself the trouble and try to get the shagreen. I can order it for you from Holland if you cannot get it in Norway. And please Google shagreen so you know how to work with it.
Cheers.
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Post by berntk on May 2, 2017 14:28:53 GMT
Thanks. It seems that the only "shagreen" I can find on the 'Net is rayskin, even when I search for "galuchat", and as you say, it's thick. The fragments that were left were extremely thin. The backstrap is steel/ malleable cast iron, so it can easily be bent into shape. Were it brass, I wouldn't take that chance.
Norway is a country of fish, yes, but probably too small to find any specialist fishskin guys. As I understand, they even send fish to China to be filleted, and then returned by ship. That's worthy of some salty language...
However, I'm a member of NVHS, the Norwegian FESAC charter (Arms Collectors), and I haven't exhausted that opening yet: There always is somebody who knows someone who etc...
Your offer of ordering for me from Holland is greatly appreciated, and I may realistically take you up on it. Do you by any chance have any links? It's always nice to have alternatives. I will try all my local contacts before I ask that great favour of you.
Cheers!
B
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 2, 2017 20:41:13 GMT
These guys should have shagreen. Last year they had ostrich leather and other kinds of exotic hides too: echtleer.nl/product-categorie/leder/ . Shoot them an email. Yes, somebody who knows the brother of, whose second cousin etc, is often a very good way to find stuff. Succes!
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Post by berntk on May 2, 2017 21:08:16 GMT
Thank you! I will definitely try them.
B
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 2, 2017 21:09:53 GMT
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Post by berntk on May 2, 2017 22:39:47 GMT
Sent an order to the Belgian firm, although Norway wasn't on their country selector, even though there were several non-EU countries there.
Thanks again, I'll report back!
Cheers!
B
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Post by berntk on May 16, 2017 19:54:09 GMT
Well, the Belgians wanted 105€ just for postage, so I dropped them. I did however receive a small rayskin from Thailand, and I decided to sand it down and try it. Too black and shiny, but not too bad. I haven't peened the self-made button yet, I need to let that decision mature a bit, but the original wire fits, and there are no obvious gaps or blemishes.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 17, 2017 14:48:05 GMT
That looks great. Job well done! I still cannot fathom that real shagreen is so hard to get. It sees important use in the furniture and accessories industry for G's sake. Those grips were black by the way. Only years of use made them look grey. And those Belgians need lay off the meds for a bit. Glad you got the job done in the face of obstruction and petty fraud.
Cheers.
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Post by berntk on May 17, 2017 16:04:55 GMT
Thank you! And now for the blade . 80 grit Mirka and EZE-lap diamond paddles, and perhaps my Worksharp Ken Onion with accessories.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 17, 2017 20:29:05 GMT
If you work the blade like you did the grip I am sure it will come out great. Please keep us informed.
Cheers.
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Post by berntk on May 17, 2017 21:15:31 GMT
Hehe, I doubt it. The foible is so deeply pitted that going "full Uhlan" on it would leave veeeery little steel. It was a cheapie . B
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