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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 27, 2017 5:34:19 GMT
I've recently been getting into Japanese katana and have been buying them as fast as I can make the money lol. I also really like the look of straight blade Chinese Dao with tanto tip (not sure what its really called, but that's what knives with the same tip are called). I'd love to buy one of the Ronin Elite Chinese Dao, but they are out of stock until later this summer. I found one on ebay that looks almost identical to the Ronin one and looks like its pretty good quality and materials.
www.ebay.com/itm/272558449839?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Any thoughts on this brand lyuesword, and this sword in particular? If anyone has any other suggestions for a sword that looks like this, I'm definitely interested in some other choices. |
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kaiyo
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Post by kaiyo on Apr 27, 2017 7:41:57 GMT
thats not a Dao at all, its a ninja-to if you like the look of that particular sword maybe you should buy a ninja-to instead lyueswords makes decent swords, there are better options www.kultofathena.com/swords-ninja-to.asp |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 27, 2017 8:04:58 GMT
thats not a Dao at all, its a ninja-to Actually, it is. It's a variation on the style of dao used during the Tang dynasty, which was the style imported into Japan that eventually led to the creation of the katana. Early chokuto (Japanese straight swords) were very similar to Tang dao, though often with slightly more elaborate hilts. That said, while the Japanese did have straight-bladed swords, the ninja-to is a myth. If it existed, it would have been closer to a ko-katana in size, shape, and curvature; it'd be kind stupid to be a spy trained in the art of disguise to carry a sword that sticks out from the pack. @seanx11: I don't typically pay much attention to eBay sellers as the quality can be rather hit or miss, so I can't comment decisively, but reading through their "description" of the sword, they seem to be using a lot of buzzwords. They also describe it as being clay tempered, which is the process that gives a katana it's curvature; you could create a straight blade with this method, but that'd require more complex forging than just making the blade straight in the first place. They also mention a hamon that doesn't show in any of the pictures. Now, I'm a cynical person, so take this with a grain of salt, but even if I were to give them the benefit of the doubt, I'd say the sword might be decent while also being very overpriced. With that in mind, while it's on backorder, Kult of Athena offers a Tang dao from Iron Tiger Forge (who, to my knowledge, have a fair reputation) for less than half the price of the Lyuesword piece: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=BC0810&name=Iron+Tiger+Forge+Tang+Dynasty+Dao |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 27, 2017 8:24:10 GMT
I guess the "to" in ninja-to (meaning: "sword") is another writing of "dao".
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 8:27:06 GMT
Same character (刀), "dao" in Mandarin, "dou" in Cantonese, "do" in Korean, "sao" in Vietnamese, "to" or "katana" in Japanese.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 27, 2017 8:43:56 GMT
... and "dha" in burmese.
Thanks, Timo!
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 10:36:48 GMT
The upthread-mentioned languages definitely borrowed from the Chinese (except the Japanese also kept their pronunciation "katana" alongside "to"), and write it with the same Chinese character. It becomes much more mysterious when you move to other languages. I haven't seen anything definitive on the etymology of "dha", "daab", etc. in Khmer, Thai, and Malay languages. It could come directly from Chinese into SE Asia, or it could come from Himalayan languages (via Bengali? - see the ram dao).
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 27, 2017 16:57:18 GMT
seanyx11Considering your stated interests, you might want to look into Korean swords as well. They also have a style of sword with a blade that's very reminiscent of the katana.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 20:25:16 GMT
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 27, 2017 21:06:27 GMT
Though I appreciate the language lesson  lol...I just want a sword that looks like what is pictured. As far as the ninja-to, I actually have a Hanwei Ninja-to, but its very cheaply made ($240) w/ fake same and synthetic suede ito. Its not bad looking, but I wanted something that was better quality, like the Ronin Elite Chinese Dao pictured here:     I've seen all the Ninja-to on KOA and the Iron Tiger Forge one is nice looking, but alas, backordered and has been for over a month now. Though, I wanted a full samegawa wrapped handle and that one just has a wooden finish. The Iga and Kouga Ninja-to by Hanwei are nice, but they have a normal Katana kissaki and not the tanto shaped tip like what I'm looking for. Just FYI, the Hanwei Ninja-to I have, is straight blade w/ a real hamon, so if it can be done properly for $240, I would hope it could be done properly for $800. And the hamon does actually show up in the first picture if you look closely. I'd still be reluctant to spend this much on an ebay sword, but it looks very similar to Ronin's Tang Dao and they're all made in Longquan, China. Not that that means all swords made there are equal, but just something to consider I think. |
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 27, 2017 21:25:26 GMT
I appreciate the suggestions, but those look basically like regular katana. I'm looking for a straight-blade tanto tipped Chinese (or whatever) Tang Dao sword. Pretty much one that looks like the Lyuesword from the original post or the Ronin Elite from my previous post. I spoke with Chris @ Ronin katana and he said they would be putting another one up for sale soon, but that was several weeks ago and still nothing yet.
Thanks for the help though man 
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Apr 27, 2017 21:51:00 GMT
Kris Cutlery has a Korean sword, I think it's their 4th edition now, personally I prefered their 3rd edition better because the grip was wrapped
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 27, 2017 22:05:49 GMT
I'm looking for a straight-blade tanto tipped Chinese (or whatever) Tang Dao sword. That style of blade is "kiriha-zukuri", which works as a search term to find more. Most of what you find searching on kiriha-zukuri will be that kind of blade in katana-style mounts, and often US$100-$200. (A kiriha-zukuri blade can be curved, and sometimes you'll find a sword on ebay that looks like a regular katana - same mounts, curvature etc, but with a kiriha zukuri blade instead of a shinogi zukuri blade.) As well as the small-guard Tang-style mounts in the examples up-thread, you'll find some with the larger Japanese tachi mounts (with shitogi tsuba): www.ebay.com/itm/Sword-Tang-dao-High-manganese-steel-blade-Black-wood-scabbard-Alloy-fitting-/162483119563Here's one in very plain Chinese-style mounts: www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-handmade-Chinese-sword-high-carbon-steel-tang-dao-/262647286391Here's one with an interesting broad-fullered blade: www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-Chinese-sword-tang-dao-pattern-steel-blade-copper-fittings-/262732213647 (might not be kiriha-zukuri, technically speaking). Ryan Sword has a nice looking big one: www.ryansword.com/hand-forged-maru-clay-tempered-japanese-samurai-nodachi-ninja-sword-ryan853-p-676.html with a 90cm/36" blade. Katana-style mounts, though. If this was with Tang-style mounts (or Japanese tachi mounts with shitogi tsuba) I'd have gotten one. As is, it's on the "potential" list. A few years ago, there were some cheap ones (about US$300, iirc) with full rayskin grips (but plain scabbards) out there. Can't find them now. The cheap Tang dao out there now usually have plain wood grip, and zinc-aluminium alloy fittings. Go up a notch, and you're looking at plain wood and brass fittings. Something I found years ago was the top sword here:  IIRC, US$350 or US$400. Rayskin grip and scabbard. The rayskin on the scabbard isn't so well-finished. The fittings are alloy and thick and clunky. It's OK, but IMO not a bargain at the price. From one of the old ebay sellers. Better finished, and with lighter brass fittings, it might be really good. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 28, 2017 0:00:49 GMT
Just a wild thought but you might get what you want by having it custom built by someone on eBay.
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 28, 2017 1:43:35 GMT
@ Timo Nieminen - you are the man thanks for all the suggestions, links and pics. That is definitely what I'm looking for. What I'm really looking for though in a perfect world, is a quality, straight, folded, & clay tempered blade (real hamon) like the Ronin Katana Tang Dao w/ tanto style tip, but with a regular Japanese tsuka. Basically, the Hanwei ninja-to, but with a nicer thicker blade and real samegawa and silk ito.
edit: YES!! That ryansword one is almost exactly what I'm looking for...except not with a 3 foot blade and ugly green same w/ blue ito lol (sorry if you liked it, no offense, just not my thing) If I could get that in a 28-30" blade w/ a normal size tsuka 10-13" or so and black samegawa w/ black silk ito & decent looking tsuba = AWESOME
@ pgandy - after what I just said about the Frankenstein sword that I really want, it seems as though a custom sword from ebay may be my only route unfortunately.
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Post by akran on Apr 28, 2017 2:14:03 GMT
Actually, it is. It's a variation on the style of dao used during the Tang dynasty, which was the style imported into Japan that eventually led to the creation of the katana. Just to add, it goes back even further to at least the Han dynasty. There was a collector named Kenneth Blair on Sword Forum International who had pdf on ancient Chinese polearms but in it were also pictures of jians and daos (or if not in the paper, he posted those separately online). Sadly, the links no longer work. (Would have been visible here). I remembered downloading them in 2014, so if I still have a copy, I'll post it somewhere. |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 28, 2017 2:58:41 GMT
@ Timo Nieminen - you are the man :) thanks for all the suggestions, links and pics. That is definitely what I'm looking for. What I'm really looking for though in a perfect world, is a quality, straight, folded, & clay tempered blade (real hamon) like the Ronin Katana Tang Dao w/ tanto style tip, but with a regular Japanese tsuka. Basically, the Hanwei ninja-to, but with a nicer thicker blade and real samegawa and silk ito. Except for the silk ito part, that's easy: www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Folded-Steel-Clay-Tempered-Kiriha-Zukuri-Straight-Chokuto-Ninjato-Blade-/251468648898www.ryansword.com/high-quality-1095carbon-steelfolded-steel-japanese-samurai-ninja-sword-ryan716-p-575.htmlThe differentially-hardened blades tend to be non-folded, but there are some folded DH ones. This style of blade might also be of interest: www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-T10-Differential-Hardened-Kiriha-Zukuri-Chokuto-Ninjato-Ninja-Sword-/251468653329 (shinogi zukuri with the angular "tanto" tip). As for the long Ryan Sword, it's about the closest one can find to the very long Tang dao. A minimum of a new guard and a re-warp of the hilt would be in order. Here's an extra long one:  |
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Post by HazMatt on Apr 28, 2017 13:42:55 GMT
I'm looking for a straight-blade tanto tipped Chinese (or whatever) Tang Dao sword. That style of blade is "kiriha-zukuri", which works as a search term to find more. Most of what you find searching on kiriha-zukuri will be that kind of blade in katana-style mounts, and often US$100-$200. (A kiriha-zukuri blade can be curved, and sometimes you'll find a sword on ebay that looks like a regular katana - same mounts, curvature etc, but with a kiriha zukuri blade instead of a shinogi zukuri blade.) As well as the small-guard Tang-style mounts in the examples up-thread, you'll find some with the larger Japanese tachi mounts (with shitogi tsuba): www.ebay.com/itm/Sword-Tang-dao-High-manganese-steel-blade-Black-wood-scabbard-Alloy-fitting-/162483119563Here's one in very plain Chinese-style mounts: www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-handmade-Chinese-sword-high-carbon-steel-tang-dao-/262647286391Here's one with an interesting broad-fullered blade: www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-Chinese-sword-tang-dao-pattern-steel-blade-copper-fittings-/262732213647 (might not be kiriha-zukuri, technically speaking). Ryan Sword has a nice looking big one: www.ryansword.com/hand-forged-maru-clay-tempered-japanese-samurai-nodachi-ninja-sword-ryan853-p-676.html with a 90cm/36" blade. Katana-style mounts, though. If this was with Tang-style mounts (or Japanese tachi mounts with shitogi tsuba) I'd have gotten one. As is, it's on the "potential" list. A few years ago, there were some cheap ones (about US$300, iirc) with full rayskin grips (but plain scabbards) out there. Can't find them now. The cheap Tang dao out there now usually have plain wood grip, and zinc-aluminium alloy fittings. Go up a notch, and you're looking at plain wood and brass fittings. Something I found years ago was the top sword here: IIRC, US$350 or US$400. Rayskin grip and scabbard. The rayskin on the scabbard isn't so well-finished. The fittings are alloy and thick and clunky. It's OK, but IMO not a bargain at the price. From one of the old ebay sellers. Better finished, and with lighter brass fittings, it might be really good. I like the looks of the middle blade, with the red grip. What are the details on it? |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 28, 2017 20:00:14 GMT
I like the looks of the middle blade, with the red grip. What are the details on it? Old-style tachi. Maker unknown, steel unknown but monosteel, DH. It's a second, with a fatal flaw (the hamon runs off the edge near the yokote), so it was really cheap. That's my photo showing the evolution of the Japanese sword. |
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Post by HazMatt on Apr 28, 2017 20:39:09 GMT
I like the looks of the middle blade, with the red grip. What are the details on it? Old-style tachi. Maker unknown, steel unknown but monosteel, DH. It's a second, with a fatal flaw (the hamon runs off the edge near the yokote), so it was really cheap. That's my photo showing the evolution of the Japanese sword. Thanks. Yeah, if the hamon ran of the edge then there is a soft spot in the edge. Not good for keeping an edge sharp. I would not have known that if I had not started watching forged in fire. I'm addicted to the show now lol. |
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lol...I just want a sword that looks like what is pictured. As far as the ninja-to, I actually have a Hanwei Ninja-to, but its very cheaply made ($240) w/ fake same and synthetic suede ito. Its not bad looking, but I wanted something that was better quality, like the Ronin Elite Chinese Dao pictured here:
