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Post by jjf on Mar 14, 2017 0:54:19 GMT
This is a follow on to the other SBG Ryujin Custom post that I initially responded to (check that for back story). It should be noted while this is a 'low end' sword that 'only' runs about $240 after shipping, being my first sword, it was something of a big deal to me, despite being a newb.
This is an abbreviated / limited 'review' as I stopped 'unwrapping' the blade or doing any cleanup after I saw the two major show stoppers (at least for me) with this sword. Pics are below but before I get into those issues, some of the positives:
Package arrived in a plain, but well packed box via USPS. Delivered in a reasonable time after the order with no damage to the box or packing material.
Very excited when I first pulled it from it's packing and bag. Actually really liked the color scheme match with the deep Burgundy saya and gold wrapped tsuka.
Sword certificate was included as promised. the Burgundy saya is as attractive as noted on the SBG order site. Very nice deep Burgundy.
Unfortunately, note the scratches. Interestingly, I saw no way these could have been a result of shipping given the sword and saya being wrapped in the bag and with the lack of damage to the box or packing. In all probability, this was scratched before it was boxed up for shipment. Even so, relatively minor and not a show stopper for me by any means.
Next issue, again not huge for me but... if you check the tsuba and the gold 'plating' on the web site, the only items that should be highlighted are the Mantis, the Cicada and very subtly the sparrow's eye... so what's up with the leaf being gold? My guess is someone 'slipped', then just finished painting the rest of the leaf to make it look intentional. Would actually be okay, IF that was what was on the site and what I expected when I ordered it, but it wasn't. Again, another QC issue. But the best (worst) are yet to come.
Note the gap between the ITO/Same and the Fuchi below. SO obvious, I was dumbfounded when I saw it (it literally jumped out at me immediately after unbagging it), how do you miss this when assembling the limited number of components (essentially the tsuka, tsuba and blade itself) associated with these semi-custom Katana's? I doubt you do, it was likely just slapped together, probably saw it and they moved on anyway.
Not so obvious in the picture below, but more so when holding the sword is the off square 'twist' of the tsuba relative to the blade. I haven't really determined whether this is a bent tsuba or some other 'out of square' issue. I won't be trying to disassemble this to determine that while I'm still trying to get someone from SBG to respond to my emails.
Note I haven't unwrapped the blade or cleaned it yet since, again, still trying to get a response from SBG before I take that step.
The two huge issues for me are the state of the Ito/Same 'wrap gap' and the weirdly twisted (?) tsuba, which is very unfortunate because the wrap itself was very tight, and while the diamonds are certainly less than perfect, I didn't expect them to be at this price range. No rattle or loose hardware, blade fit snugly in the saya without rattling and the blade stayed put even when upside down.
Such potential, ruined by lack of QC or even minimal diligence when assembling the sword. I think that is the single biggest impression this process (so far) has left with me, the sheer lack of QC or even apparent caring about putting a decent product together to ship to the customer. Perhaps my experience wit this Ryujin 'custom' is an anomaly, but frankly, given the choice to do it over again, I'd look elsewhere, and would recommend the same.
Again, no specs on the blade itself or pics of that (yet) as I've not finished the unwrapping. Also, any thoughts, advice, suggestions from any of the obviously more experienced members of this forum (that would likely be all of you!) would be appreciated.
Regardless, stay tuned for an update and perhaps more pics.
✌ Peace!
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Post by Faldarin on Mar 14, 2017 1:06:12 GMT
Thanks for posting the review, jjf. Sorry you had a worse experience than I did. I hope you get a response soon.
I imagine some of it could get pushed off as simple production issues - but the gap to the fuchi would drive me absolutely crazy. I would have probably stopped there too. Sent you a PM, as well.
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kaiyo
Member
Posts: 1,201
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Post by kaiyo on Mar 14, 2017 3:49:14 GMT
i would say the mentioned flaws are not that big of an issue, specially for that price
the scratches on the saya - even happens on higher priced swords, the paiting on the tsuba is not really worth mentioning, same for the gap on the tsuka and the tsuba issue, sure is not pleasing but for 240$ incl. shipping you should not expect perfection ;)
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Post by nddave on Mar 14, 2017 14:26:47 GMT
i would say the mentioned flaws are not that big of an issue, specially for that price the scratches on the saya - even happens on higher priced swords, the paiting on the tsuba is not really worth mentioning, same for the gap on the tsuka and the tsuba issue, sure is not pleasing but for 240$ incl. shipping you should not expect perfection I'd say aside from the Tsuba paint all the issues mentioned are definitely worth mentioning and not up to par, even for the $200 mark. These are simple things that shouldn't be there and would have the sword listed as a S&D. Are they liveable? Sure. But regardless these shouldn't have missed QC and should've been noticed when assembly was done, especially the samegawa gap. I'm sure Paul will take care of this for him though and take note of the QC issues for further shimpents.
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Post by jjf on Mar 17, 2017 20:28:54 GMT
Have engaged Paul directly which resulted in a Cust Serv response (Good!), been most of the week still waiting however (not great) but hope yet exists and Paul has been very understanding and helpful! Keep you posted on results!
BTW, Just wanted to say thanks for all the responses and input, very much appreciated, the forum experience has been great.
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Post by seriouslee on Mar 24, 2017 14:46:44 GMT
I just got a Ryujin ($350) and had a very similar experience. The diamonds on the ito are very uneven, the saya has unfinished spots, et cetera.
But on the whole, I like the blade and the hardware while being far from perfect is functional & tight.
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Post by Faldarin on Mar 24, 2017 14:59:21 GMT
Just to add my experience to this thread - I've said it in others, but I'll repeat it here.
Late 2016 Ryujin, bo-hi, T-10 S/Z
The fittings weren't bad at all - no gaps, the diamonds were relatively even, and the ito was very tight. The saya did not have any issues - a good fit even. (There was no rattle, even though it slipped out fairly easily.) I ended up with a cracked tsuka when I took it apart - ouch.
I will caveat all of this, because the blade is tied for the best out of any sword I have gotten at this pricepoint (200-300$), katana-or-no. If one was willing or able to do their own remounting, imo Ryujin is worth the price for the blade alone. (Disclaimer: This is all from a katana-noob.)
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Post by seriouslee on Mar 24, 2017 15:04:46 GMT
Just to add my experience to this thread - I've said it in others, but I'll repeat it here. Late 2016 Ryujin, bo-hi, T-10 S/Z The fittings weren't bad at all - no gaps, the diamonds were relatively even, and the ito was very tight. The saya did not have any issues - a good fit even. (There was no rattle, even though it slipped out fairly easily.) I ended up with a cracked tsuka when I took it apart - ouch. I will caveat all of this, because the blade is tied for the best out of any sword I have gotten at this pricepoint (200-300$), katana-or-no. If one was willing or able to do their own remounting, imo Ryujin is worth the price for the blade alone. (Disclaimer: This is all from a katana-noob.) Sort of my feelings as well. The blade is where they seem to focus, not the furniture. I'll live with it.
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Post by jjf on Mar 25, 2017 19:52:59 GMT
Thanks guys, appreciate it!
I will say I briefly checked out the blade on this one and can't say it was that impressive (so says the newb...). Kissaki was not geometric in any sense, one side sanded down noticeably more than the other, etc.
Still can't say I'd recommend them at this point, particularly after I ordered a 'scratch and dent' Ronin RK and the attention to detail and relative quality was noticeably better than the Ryujin, both on the Tsuka, wrap, tsuba and blade (even though it's "only" 1045 steel). For an $80 sword, that more or less made up my mind (ordered it to keep me 'busy' while waiting to resolve the Ryujin issue and review an even 'lower end' sword).
The one redeeming factor in this has been SBG customer service, and Paul, addressing my issue in a very customer centric fashion. While it has taken some time, they have been very understanding and most importantly standing behind the product even when it wasn't their direct issue. Can't emphasize how impressed I've been with their support and understanding (not to mention help in dealing with it and 'doing the right thing' - which speaks volumes from an integrity perspective).
My 'Plan B' in this case is to step up to a Ronin Elite Bare Blade and make a 'project' of it once the Ryujin is fully resolved.
Thanks again all, awesome Forum and feedback, I really appreciate all the input!
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Post by Faldarin on Mar 25, 2017 22:05:38 GMT
Ronin very generally is awesome overall. I do have an RK that I acquired outside of scratch and dent that unfortunately has the same blade issues that you list for the Ryujin. It seems to be a peril of production swords everywhere. (Yes, even Albions have fit/finish issues at times that slip by initial QC.) The tsuka/wrap and tsuba are very excellent on the Ronin I acquired though. The real measure of any company though is how they react to this information, and what kind of support they give though, imo.
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Post by seriouslee on Mar 25, 2017 23:52:07 GMT
I have three Munetoshi's and at this point not one has had ANY sort of fit & finish issue. Even diamonds, no wood showing etc. I do understand focusing on different targets. But I come from a QA background so I believe in the "and" and not the "or." You can have quality furniture AND a quality blade, it does not have to be one OR the other.
The cosmetics with the Ryujin are not enough for me to return it but are enough to make me think twice about the brand in the future.
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Post by jjf on Mar 26, 2017 5:10:01 GMT
Thanks for the tips on the Munetoshi's. I've not yet looked at those swords. Another potential target for future acquisitions!
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Post by jjf on Mar 29, 2017 22:38:14 GMT
Just 'closing out' this thread. SBG comes through on the return of the Ryujin and I'm off to acquire and 'upgrade' the Ronin Katana Soshu Kitae in Shirasaya. Hoping Cottontail Customs will take me on as a client. Time to pick a TSUBA, etc...
Shout out once again to SBG in general and Paul in particular for standing behind their store product(s). Very much appreciated!
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Post by connorclarke on Mar 30, 2017 20:07:13 GMT
Just 'closing out' this thread. SBG comes through on the return of the Ryujin and I'm off to acquire and 'upgrade' the Ronin Katana Soshu Kitae in Shirasaya. Hoping Cottontail Customs will take me on as a client. Time to pick a TSUBA, etc... Shout out once again to SBG in general and Paul in particular for standing behind their store product(s). Very much appreciated! Have you tried Jeffrey Ching at Samurai workshop? He's a member here as well but not seen him on here much these days.
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 7, 2017 18:41:53 GMT
To the OP...I'm sure you won't be disappointed in the Ronin elite. I have 2 elites, a dojo pro katana & wakizashi and a hammer forged katana. All of them have been just about perfect. Fit & finish is outstanding and the blades, especially on the elites, are just gorgeous. I'm new at this myself, so I don't know a whole lot, but I do know when something looks 'right' and something looks 'wrong'...and Ronin's swords have been awesome in every aspect. Either way, good luck with the elite bare blade project. I was thinking of doing this myself actually. Let us know how it goes with cottontail customs. I spoke with Josh about getting my Hanwei Tori tsuka re-wrapped and he was very helpful with everything. Though I don't think they're taking anything other than tsuka wraps right now. Hopefully, you can get that elite fixed up the way you want...I wanna see pics when you do for sure
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