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Post by vermithrax on Mar 9, 2017 2:39:41 GMT
I had been prowling your forum and loved it. Reminds me of the Camaro forum I belong to, knowledgeable and fun. I have several swords from over the years but something else always got in the way, or was more important. I have been a bad sword owner.
I want to correct that.
I want to re-condition my old blades (mostly mass produced but cool to me stuff) and I have coming an authentic Edo Period Nihonto katana in the next week or so.
So, if my old swords have some rust, how do I clean that up?
How do I protect a blade I want to keep for a long time?
I have Renaissance Wax, machine oil, you name it. Help me out.
When I get the new sword, I will do a post with all my blades cleaned up and on display.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 3:23:41 GMT
Some need different levels of care. For your Japanese antique, there are several good pages here. Don't mess around with it, for its own benefit. If it were mine and in great condition, I would likely have it in a sword bag, aside from viewing. Viewing or display on an appropriate stand. Not something I would want to have to dust all the time. www.japaneseswordindex.com/Depending on your use, ren wax is popular. Keep in mind that for the most part it is really common sense stuff. Oil attracts dust. Aside from the nihon-to, anything bare bladed on display is better off dry (or waxed, or silicon gun rags or spray). When I have a scabbard or saya, I keep the blades in their homes. Sharps can cause injury, I have done it myself just packing or moving even 200 year old swords. I had one sword jump off the wall and bite me while I was moving something that caught it. If you plan to display the nihon-to, please do so with the sword in its saya. Proper handling will make for less maintenance. There are many favorite routines and products and far be it from me to insist everyone else mimic my own shop of horrors.
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Post by Faldarin on Mar 9, 2017 23:46:49 GMT
Hey again, vermithrax. I can't speak much to the nihonto, other than to say 'awesome' and beg for pics. I don't have a lot of experience there. However, for other blades, I can comment a little bit on the sword care part... and hopefully someone else can help you with cleaning up the rust. I'm not experienced enough in restoring/polishing to say much there - but there's a whole 'sword repair' section of this forum to browse. Anything you want to display bare bladed, Renaissance Wax is amazing for. Use JUUUST a little bit (less than you think you'll need), and do it outdoors or in the garage. Smells quite a bit till it dries. If you want a classy display for single blades, these are both nice: One Handed Swords (Esp. Katana/Saber) or Two Handed Swords . They've got the added benefit of mainly needing to dust the case, rather than the blade itself for the most part. Edelweiss has the right of it in my experience - if you use something mass-produced as a backyard cutter, oil it up, and keep it in its (wood-cored) scabbard or saya. Use only a LITTLE oil. Less than you think you need, again... a 1/2 to 3/4 inch diameter dot of oil on a rag is more than enough for most swords. How often you've got to do that depends how humid it is where you are (weeks to a month or two). (I like to clean old oil off with rubbing alcohol before I apply new, but that's probably not required.) Machine oil should work, if it's fairly light. Light mineral oil, 3-in-1, sewing machine oil. I've heard to avoid WD-40, personally. If you don't plan on taking a blade out for backyard cutting or any kind of technique drills or anything, Renaissance wax it, and put it away in its scabbard or saya, and that should be able to go for months and months between applications. If you don't have a scabbard or saya, wax it as well, and wrap it in a dry cloth, or just display it somewhere on a stand. In a cloth would be less maintenance though. Again, for the nihonto, others can definitely tell you better than I could. Good luck, and looking forward to the blade pictures.
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Post by Verity on Mar 9, 2017 23:52:15 GMT
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Post by vermithrax on Mar 10, 2017 2:35:31 GMT
Thanks all! Great links and great advice. I came to the right place.
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Post by seriouslee on Mar 10, 2017 3:11:38 GMT
I use Butcher's Bowling Alley Wax on blades I do not expect to unsheathe for a while. I Liquid Wrench Super Oil the ones that I use regularly.
"Butcher's Wax is a blend of carnauba and microcrystalline waxes with mineral spirits as a softening agent. It can be used on wooden surfaces as well as marble, metals (brass, copper...), etc"
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Post by vermithrax on Mar 10, 2017 3:27:49 GMT
No Thumbs Up button here but all responses I appreciate.
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Post by Verity on Mar 10, 2017 3:45:04 GMT
I'll take a bit of time and cover reconditioning and conservation methods I use.
1st: caveat emptor on Renn wax as I mention above. Miracle stuff but recently museums have learned that some of their miracle methods have come at a price. See my above posted case study. That said it can be a good option for some. I do not use it for the reasons posted in case study. Getting it off is near impossible.
2nd: I strongly urge you to not attempt to restore a Nihonto yourself. Restoration and polish of Nihonto takes years of study to become adept at. Keep it oiled and conserved in whatever present state it is in. Save the polishing of Nihonto to the trained professionals who have studied, apprenticed and have become skilled in the nuances of the practice.
Conservation methods I use for any non-Nihonto is pretty simple: silicone gun and reel cloths. I use KleenBore ones. I wipe down my swords every few weeks and never get any rust. Period. I do it every couple of weeks because it can sometimes evaporate in higher temps in the summer and such. Avoid WD-40 as the silicate there evaporates very quickly. Sewing machine oil, pure light mineral oil, 3-in-1, etc all work well too. But I find the gun and reel cloth to be no muss no fuss. Every 4-6 months I clean the blades down with denatured or isopropyl alcohol down to bare metal and re-wipe with the gun and reel cloth. This ensures no "muck buildup".
For blades I have need of polishing to remove rust (usually ones I acquire that may need some TLC) involves scotch brite pads, automotive wet/dry paper or stones. Which I use depends upon the original level of polish; is it mirror or satin..
For Nihonto I wipe off oil with non-acid cotton cloth and denatured or isopropyl alcohol. Then a pass with a clean and dry microfiber cloth that helps pull any oil from the interstices in the steel of the hada. Then apply a few drops of mineral oil (I use high quality choji but light mineral oil works) and wipe the blade. I generally use a microfiber or acid free cotton cloth for this.
Hope this helps..
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Post by vermithrax on Mar 10, 2017 3:56:14 GMT
I'll take a bit of time and cover reconditioning and conservation methods I use. 1st: caveat emptor on Renn wax as I mention above. Miracle stuff but recently museums have learned that some of their miracle methods have come at a price. See my above posted case study. That said it can be a good option for some. I do not use it for the reasons posted in case study. Getting it off is near impossible. 2nd: I strongly urge you to not attempt to restore a Nihonto yourself. Restoration and polish of Nihonto takes years of study to become adept at. Keep it oiled and conserved in whatever present state it is in. Save the polishing of Nihonto to the trained professionals who have studied, apprenticed and have become skilled in the nuances of the practice. Conservation methods I use for any non-Nihonto is pretty simple: silicone gun and reel cloths. I use KleenBore ones. I wipe down my swords every few weeks and never get any rust. Period. I do it every couple of weeks because it can sometimes evaporate in higher temps in the summer and such. Avoid WD-40 as the silicate there evaporates very quickly. Sewing machine oil, pure light mineral oil, 3-in-1, etc all work well too. But I find the gun and reel cloth to be no muss no fuss. Every 4-6 months I clean the blades down with denatured or isopropyl alcohol down to bare metal and re-wipe with the gun and reel cloth. This ensures no "muck buildup". For blades I have need of polishing to remove rust (usually ones I acquire that may need some TLC) involves scotch brite pads, automotive wet/dry paper or stones. Which I use depends upon the original level of polish; is it mirror or satin.. Verity, thank you! Great post and I appreciate it. The Nihonto is newly refitted and polished so I will not be doing any of that. Just want to take care of it. Loved that article with the reference links. I am a molecular biologist (DNA manipulation and synthetic chemistry) so I eat that kind of thing up big time.
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Post by Verity on Mar 10, 2017 3:58:36 GMT
Yeah the woes of microcrystalline and polyethylene waxes is just starting to be observed in the museums now after 20 or so years. Some are moving to one or the other and not blends given the solubility rates. (Renn wax is a microcrystalline/polyethylene blended wax).
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Post by Verity on Mar 10, 2017 4:00:02 GMT
I edited my narrative to include what I do for Nihonto. Some still use uchiko but many have stopped using it due to the risks of user error.
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Post by Faldarin on Mar 10, 2017 4:00:35 GMT
Definitely listen to Verity as this goes. I know next to nothing about nihonto care and feeding. The only thing I use Ren Wax on currently is one blade that I don't ever intend to cut with (structural problems, a production blade, but I love how it looks).
I was thinking of potentially using it on some others for long term storage, but pardon me while I look at it funny now.
Edited: Hey, at least for all of my other swords, I use a similar procedure to Verity's... working on computers gives me an ample supply of rubbing alcohol.
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Post by vermithrax on Mar 10, 2017 4:06:34 GMT
Definitely listen to Verity as this goes. I know next to nothing about nihonto care and feeding. The only thing I use Ren Wax on currently is one blade that I don't ever intend to cut with (structural problems, a production blade, but I love how it looks). I was thinking of potentially using it on some others for long term storage, but pardon me while I look at it funny now. Edited: Hey, at least for all of my other swords, I use a similar procedure to Verity's... working on computers gives me an ample supply of rubbing alcohol. I am listening to Verity! Good tips from everyone. I want to clean up my older swords from years ago that I have neglected and I know I came to right place to discuss it all. Thanks!
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Post by Faldarin on Mar 10, 2017 4:13:34 GMT
Take care of that nihonto, or we will be less nice.
.... Ahem. I kid.
(But no, seriously, take good care of it, it's a piece of history.)
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Post by vermithrax on Mar 10, 2017 4:17:31 GMT
Take care of that nihonto, or we will be less nice. .... Ahem. I kid. ( But no, seriously, take good care of it, it's a piece of history.) Trust me, it's getting a nice home. Am a collector of first edition books and they are my kids. This will be my wife. Wife not happy BTW.
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Post by Verity on Mar 10, 2017 4:41:28 GMT
Take care of that nihonto, or we will be less nice. .... Ahem. I kid. ( But no, seriously, take good care of it, it's a piece of history.) Trust me, it's getting a nice home. Am a collector of first edition books and they are my kids. This will be my wife. Wife not happy BTW. Owning a few Nihonto myself, I will say I appreciate my wife's support of my love of swords. Do post pics when you get it! Denatured alcohol is easily acquired at a hardware store and high percentage isopropyl (90%+) is easily acquired at pharmacies.
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Post by vermithrax on Mar 10, 2017 23:56:06 GMT
No worries I am a scientist, I can get HPLC grade solvents
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,651
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Post by stormmaster on Mar 11, 2017 5:06:05 GMT
I use choji oil to protect my swords, I'm not a huge fan of japanese swords but I do have one, more of a euro and fantasy sword type of guy myself but I haven't seen any type of rust as of yet as I oil my swords about once every two months, I also keep them in air tight bags when not in use. However I wouldnt consider my climate very humid so if your in a more humid environment maybe it would be best to oil more often, dont use too much oil tho as that attracts dust and moisture could build up in the scabbards if you have any, a thin layer of oil without any dripping is best.
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