Veerdin
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Post by Veerdin on Feb 21, 2017 18:43:41 GMT
So I'm planning on assembling a plate armour harness for myself, amassing the pieces bit-by-bit over time due to my shoestring budget. Eventually I'd love to have a full suit of late 15th/early 16th century European plate. To specify, I'm only really looking for a collection piece, I sadly don't have any HEMA or re-enactment clubs nearby so it's an entirely personal thing. I've already decided to start with this helmet from Museum Replica's Limited: Clicky to take a look. (P.S That's the cheapest I could find that helmet, at about $320-ish dollars AUD, if anybody knows a cheaper one, please tell me!) But I was scouting around for other parts. I'm intending to get a breastplate/neck protection (would love a full-sized Bishop's Mantel) after that, followed by pauldrons, gauntlets, arm and leg protection, and finally sabatons. Not to mention a proper riveted maille hauberk and probably an arming doublet for under it all. But my question is this: No matter where I look, I only ever see two or three sizes of plate armour: "Medium", "Large" and occasionally "Extra Large". For me, this is a problem, because I am basically a skeleton. And while I'm not expecting to go into full sparring combat with my armour, I'd still like to be able to, y'know... Wear it. Now, I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that once I've got a thin gambeson + mail on underneath the steel, that will pad it out enough to make it so I'm not rattling around in it like so many old dry beans in a can. But even so it seems that the plate armour only ever gets made for people with actual muscle on their bodies, as opposed to my scarecrow-esque frame. I'd quite like the armour I get to be form-fitting enough that I can move and articulate in it properly. Does anywhere out there supply a "small" size armour for the stick-thin folk such as myself? For reference, I'm 175cm/5ft-7in tall and weigh around about 65kg/143lbs after a full meal. I have basically no muscle mass to speak of and am 90% skeleton and 10% caffeine. All previous attempts to gain any sort of bulk to my build have ended with misery and pain for all involved. Also, please keep in mind that while I would LOVE to get a properly tailored, hand-forged and custom fit harness, I am currently running on a tiny shoestring budget. I estimate it's going to take me at least two years to amass a full harness of pre-made gear, and that's looking at the stuff in the $200-$300 AUD range. It takes me at bare minimum a month to save up that much, and that's only if I don't end up needing to dip into my savings. A fully custom-fit tailored harness would cost me more money than I could possibly justify right now, and even if I could, I have no idea who to even ask. I've searched for armourers here in Perth, but considering this city is barely more than a glorified country town with a few tall buildings, I've not had much luck. So unless anybody knows of an armour maker down here in the arse-end of the world, and one who'd be willing to give a penniless stick figure a look-in at that, then I'll be sticking to the premade stuff. Sorry for the massive ramble, but anybody who's seen my posts should know I tend to go on a bit, so... TL:DR:Do any manufacturers out there make "small" sized European-style plate armour for a somewhat-affordable price? Thanks!
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christain
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Post by christain on Feb 22, 2017 2:58:54 GMT
By your saying $2oo-300 AUD, I gather that you are in Australia? The only off-the shelf armor that might come anywhere close to what you are wanting is the stuff made by Epic Armoury. I believe they have an Australian site. I have seen 'small' size advertised here in the states, sold by 'Medieval Collectibles'. You might check the website and see if they still have it, or at least get some measurements. Best I can tell you. I have the complete suit of their 'Dark Warrior' and it's well put together. Not 'combat-ready' by any means, but..hey...it's armor. Other than that, looks like you better start saving for custom-made. .....Chris
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Feb 22, 2017 3:08:25 GMT
Almost forgot....You might also check 'Mytholon'. I believe they are German-based. They make some smaller sized armor pieces. Their products, or at least some of them, are also sold by 'Medieval Collectibles'. Mytholon also has a website, but their descriptions are often pretty vague. Good luck! ....Chris
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Feb 22, 2017 11:46:47 GMT
Have you looked at www.medieval-fightclub.com.au/ to see if they have anything in a small size? There's also www.makeyourownmedieval.com/ though once again not sure what their sizes are like. There is an SCA group in Perth, they might know of any local armourers. Or you could try making it yourself, mild steel is cheap...
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Veerdin
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Post by Veerdin on Feb 22, 2017 13:35:29 GMT
By your saying $2oo-300 AUD, I gather that you are in Australia? The only off-the shelf armor that might come anywhere close to what you are wanting is the stuff made by Epic Armoury. I believe they have an Australian site. I have seen 'small' size advertised here in the states, sold by 'Medieval Collectibles'. You might check the website and see if they still have it, or at least get some measurements. Best I can tell you. I have the complete suit of their 'Dark Warrior' and it's well put together. Not 'combat-ready' by any means, but..hey...it's armor. Other than that, looks like you better start saving for custom-made. .....Chris Hey! Thanks for the heads up regarding those sites. I had seen Epic Armoury stuff before but always on NA/EU based sites, had no idea there was an aus based one! That makes things a lot easier for me. Cheers for the info! I'm not sure I'd get a full set from them, though. I do like the look of a few of their pieces, but they seem to make very oversized pauldrons and couters. Still, they do have a set of "ready for battle" mercenary armour which is actually pretty close to what I'm looking for. I'm aiming to build a "sleek" looking harness that fits close to my body shape, as opposed to a more bulky, "heavy" looking harness. I had a look at the German site, too, and that looks like it's got some nice stuff on it. I suspect the shipping prices would be a nightmare, though. Still, it's got some nice sets. There's another site I've found that sells some good looking armour and apparently does customs, too. It's the Czech site "Wulfhund" they've got a lot of cool stuff on there but I suspect it's the most expensive of the three. Thanks again for the info, though, I might be able to build myself something piecemeal out of Epic Armoury over a few purchases! Have you looked at www.medieval-fightclub.com.au/ to see if they have anything in a small size? There's also www.makeyourownmedieval.com/ though once again not sure what their sizes are like. There is an SCA group in Perth, they might know of any local armourers. Or you could try making it yourself, mild steel is cheap... I have looked through Medieval Fightclub, in fact that's one of the places I was perusing first. They've got one or two pieces that I could potentially see myself buying, but their stock seems to come and go fairly sporadically and I haven't seen anything on it that's really called out to me. As for Make your Own Medieval, I'm sure I've seen that site before but I think I was looking specifically for helmets at the time. Didn't really have a good look at their body armour. They do have a few nice looking pieces, thanks!
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Feb 22, 2017 14:05:23 GMT
There are plenty of good and affordable armouries in Eastern Europe. Portals like Wulflund, Celticwebmerchant, Arma Bohemia etc. provide an easy way to be in contact with them. And many of them have their own sites too.
They can make you armour parts to your custom measurements.
Shipping prices are most likely quite reasonable. You can check shipping costs in Wulflund by putting items in cart. Celtic has 70€ for 10kg worldwide. Which is really not too bad rate.
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Veerdin
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Post by Veerdin on Feb 22, 2017 14:35:38 GMT
There are plenty of good and affordable armouries in Eastern Europe. Portals like Wulflund, Celticwebmerchant, Arma Bohemia etc. provide an easy way to be in contact with them. And many of them have their own sites too. They can make you armour parts to your custom measurements. Shipping prices are most likely quite reasonable. You can check shipping costs in Wulflund by putting items in cart. Celtic has 70€ for 10kg worldwide. Which is really not too bad rate. Had a look at those two sites you mentioned, they have some lovely stuff on them! Although it seems not as much as Wulfhund, and the prices are a bit higher (well, a lot higher in the case of Arma Bohemia) But I have to say I am tempted by the idea of custom-fit armour from the Czech place. Sure, wouldn't be as good as having it tailor-made here in perth, but it'd probably be leagues ahead of some off-the-shelf stuff. All depends on price, really. As mentioned, I'm living on pennies, here. I could save up for a full year and be able to afford a piece or really high-end gear, sure. But at that rate it'd be 5 years before I had enough armour to call a harness. That and I doubt I could personally justify spending that much on something that is ultimately a collection and hobbyist item. Perhaps one day when I somehow become rich from all those sweet whatever-it-is that I end up making money from, I'll track down an armourer and get myself kitted out like a true nobleman. But until then I think I'll cobble together a harness out of the cheaper gear. That said, I'd appreciate any other site names you can give me for the Eastern European stuff, they definitely know what they're doing over there. And I won't lie, there's a few swords on Wulfhund that I've got my beady little eyes on.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 22, 2017 19:44:16 GMT
That Tudor Close Helm is only 18 ga. It sounds like you don’t intend to use your armour, only to show. It might be wise not to close any doors behind you. 18 ga is thin for a helmet. You might want to consider nothing less than 16 ga and 14 for a helmet is better.
I think you are approaching this backwards. Start with your basics first, clothing, gambeson, mail if you want. Get everything you plan to wear under the plate first then start buying plate. There are a few exceptions such as the helmet but in that case get your arming cap squared away first. It could save you grief, $$$, down the road.
I don’t know how Oz is on custom fees. I do know that international shipping can be expensive and metal, plate armour, mail, etc. is heavy and will run up your tab fast. I’ve been there.
Also, and important, don’t order by size alone. One company’s small may very well not be the same of another company. Get your basics together, measure, and then send the measurement to the vendor and have them determine the best fit for you. In fact do that when getting your basics; measure and send the measurement to the vendor and ask because on company’s medium my not agree with another. If the vendor states medium being correct for a 38-40” chest or simply 40.5”, and some will define what a size is intended for, you’ll be OK, but don’t order a small solely because you think that will fit.
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Veerdin
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Post by Veerdin on Feb 23, 2017 9:17:09 GMT
That Tudor Close Helm is only 18 ga. It sounds like you don’t intend to use your armour, only to show. It might be wise not to close any doors behind you. 18 ga is thin for a helmet. You might want to consider nothing less than 16 ga and 14 for a helmet is better. The reason I'm going after that helmet specifically is for the style. Close helms with the pronounced, angular and hinged visor are my absolute favorite style of medieval helmet, but the amount of them available that aren't custom jobs is shockingly small. The only other ones I can think of that are in the same price range are these ones made by deepeeka: Personally, I don't like either of those helmets as much as the Tudor close helm, at least not visually. I don't know who manufactures the Tudor helmet, so I don't know if it's available in a thicker steel. But in terms of the kind of helmet, it's the only one I've found that I really like which is actually in my budget range. As for actually "using" the armour, as I stated in the OP, as much as I'd love to get into HEMA/Reenactment/SCA, the closest HEMA club that I know of is 2 hours drive on a good day, and in my current circumstances I just don't have the time, energy or money to make that trip on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I'd still greatly prefer functional armour. But it's often hard to tell what constitutes "functional". I mean, I'm not exactly getting invade by France or something over here. If you do have any recommendations for a good-quality close helmet in a style at least somewhat similar to the Tudor one, I'm very much open to suggestion! But as far as I'm aware that's the best middle ground I've seen between functionality, style and price. I think you are approaching this backwards. Start with your basics first, clothing, gambeson, mail if you want. Get everything you plan to wear under the plate first then start buying plate. There are a few exceptions such as the helmet but in that case get your arming cap squared away first. It could save you grief, $$$, down the road. I'm aware of this. My intent was to first get the helmet and perhaps an arming cap/coif to go with it, followed by a gambeson coat/arming vest and a pair of breeches, the cuirass, tassets/faulds with a maille hauberk or skirt. Then pauldrons (maybe with a gorget), a maille Bishop's Mantle, arm protection, leg protection, gauntlets and finally sabatons. Perhaps with a cloak to go with it. All purchased in that order. Feel free to tell me if that's a bad order to get things in, but my idea was to armour myself from the top and going down. As I mentioned, I want to keep a slim profile with the armour on. I know that gambeson can come in a range of thickness, from "three shirts thick" to "wearing a folded mattress". But considering I'll have some maille on over it/under the plate, I wanted to keep to the thinner stuff. Due to my figure, if I put on bulkier stuff I'll look like I'm wearing half a car. I don’t know how Oz is on custom fees. I do know that international shipping can be expensive and metal, plate armour, mail, etc. is heavy and will run up your tab fast. I’ve been there. Take it from me: Australian shipping is horrendous. Part of the reason I've never ordered from Kult of Athena is that even their "budget range" gear racks up over $100+ AUD in shipping costs. And that's for the cheapest shipping. If wanted something from KoA say, next week, I'd be putting down about $250-ish dollars in shipping costs alone.That was why I was happy to learn that Epic Armory has an Aus-based branch. The armour alone is expensive, but if I was paying essentially double just to get it shipped? No way. Can't justify that. Doesn't help that most sites only list prices in USD or GBP, or in the case of the East-European sites, in Euros, all of which are hugely more valuable than the Aus-dollar. If something costs $200 USD, it's more like $300 for me. Euros are the worst because they're basically double the value of AUD. Also, and important, don’t order by size alone. One company’s small may very well not be the same of another company. Get your basics together, measure, and then send the measurement to the vendor and have them determine the best fit for you. In fact do that when getting your basics; measure and send the measurement to the vendor and ask because on company’s medium my not agree with another. If the vendor states medium being correct for a 38-40” chest or simply 40.5”, and some will define what a size is intended for, you’ll be OK, but don’t order a small solely because you think that will fit. My intent was to slowly measure as I go. Gambeson I feel pretty confident in getting the generic "small" size in, because I am - as previously mentioned - a scarecrow. Then I'd measure with it on, then with a maille hauberk on (if I get one) and so on... Wouldn't want a harness that doesn't fit. I appreciate the advice, though! Thank you for taking the time to respond.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 23, 2017 17:06:23 GMT
Veerdin I certainly wish you success. I thought similar to you but due to shipping rates, customs fees, exchange rate, a few pieces not fitting as well as I would like, and so on, my armour more closely matches a poorer warrior or common soldier. I do have some plate such as helmet, hauberk, vambraces (4), and a leather belt that measures 9” x ¾” in places. Not to say what I have is ineffectual by any means. In fact I can switch around and get several combinations. I have two gambesons. One I consider on the thin side but works well with my hauberk. The other is quite thick and I think one would have difficulty cutting through it, if at all. Another problem I encountered was heat build up. Here in the tropics that is a problem in itself. If I seal myself in a steel case with what I need under it I’ll collapse from heat exhaustion. My weak area is the legs and I don’t see a solution at the moment. I have a padded skirt and padded pants that come down to just below the knees with steel plate for the knees, the shins are exposed.
“I don't know who manufactures the Tudor helmet, so I don't know if it's available in a thicker steel.”
Windlass made it.
“This excellent reproduction by the fine craftsmen of Windlass Steelcrafts is fully wearable. Made from 18 gauge hammer hardened steel. ”
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Veerdin
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Post by Veerdin on Feb 23, 2017 19:40:26 GMT
Veerdin I certainly wish you success. I thought similar to you but due to shipping rates, customs fees, exchange rate, a few pieces not fitting as well as I would like, and so on, my armour more closely matches a poorer warrior or common soldier. I do have some plate such as helmet, hauberk, vambraces (4), and a leather belt that measures 9” x ¾” in places. Not to say what I have is ineffectual by any means. In fact I can switch around and get several combinations. I have two gambesons. One I consider on the thin side but works well with my hauberk. The other is quite thick and I think one would have difficulty cutting through it, if at all. Another problem I encountered was heat build up. Here in the tropics that is a problem in itself. If I seal myself in a steel case with what I need under it I’ll collapse from heat exhaustion. My weak area is the legs and I don’t see a solution at the moment. I have a padded skirt and padded pants that come down to just below the knees with steel plate for the knees, the shins are exposed. Thank you! I suspect it will take me quite some time to assemble my full harness, a year or two at least, I'd imagine. Who knows, perhaps I'll get lucky and somehow get the money together quickly, but it's hard to say for certain. With my current income, it will be one or two bits of armour every couple months if I'm being sensible. I'm taking it as a kind of long-term project of sorts. “I don't know who manufactures the Tudor helmet, so I don't know if it's available in a thicker steel.” Windlass made it. “This excellent reproduction by the fine craftsmen of Windlass Steelcrafts is fully wearable. Made from 18 gauge hammer hardened steel. ” Ah! I can't believe I missed that! Thank you for the heads up, I had a look on he Windlass site and I'm scouting some of their other retailers that ship to Aus, see if I can't get a better price on that helmet (and perhaps look into other items, too.) I've never owned a Windlass product before but I'm aware they're generally considered to be a "mid-range" sort of quality in terms of manufacturing. Decent and functional, but prone to the occasional defect or flaw and by no means "high-end" stuff. I was actually contemplating getting one of their rapiers earlier on, but was unable to find one that shipped down-under at a reasonable rate, so I went with a deepeeka instead.
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christain
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Post by christain on Mar 5, 2017 16:58:00 GMT
You mentioned that the Epic Armoury pauldrons are big...yes they are. If you choose a polished Warrior breastplate and backplate, the Mercenary pauldrons will fit. That would make for the more 'streamlined' look you are aiming for. They will also fit with the Warrior gorget, to wear without, or over, the body armor. Wearing the pauldrons and gorget over maille and a tabard just looks badass also. Good luck! ....Chris
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