Any tip to beat longsword using the katana?

Lots of good points Kyioshi, you seem to be a very experienced fencer.

I'm a swordman just as much as you are, though to be fair sword was never the battlefied weapon. It's more of a cavalry thing after the inital charge with a lance. Infantry use polearms mostly. I had another thread about katana vs naginata back in the day at my old dojo, and the naginata just slaughter katana people specifically the legs, hence why samurai started putting on shin guard.

But let's just forget about all that and focus on sword wielding.

I also watched the dual wielding video you posted before. Let's forget length for a moment. Considering this situation:

He strikes, I block while lunging in with the waki. I couldnt reach far enough for a strike, or fast enough before he counter blocks.

He strikes, I block while lunging in with the katana. I managed to hit him thanks to the longer length.

I completely agree that it's not about the weapon, but the weapon is part of it. In the end it comes down to hitting the other guy before he hits you. If you are smaller / have a shorter weapon then you compensate with better footwork or you have to be faster.

However, HEMA guys compensate for a deemphasis in footwork with close combat grappling, and the longsword is a much more maneouvrable weapon than the katana. When we switched weapon, I used the longsword and he used the katana, I almost always win.

Back to niten. It seems to me that you almost have to decided with which weapon you block and which is your primary strike weapon.

Let's say you left hand your waki. Again, the problem is that it is not a parry dagger. I'm not that good with niten yet, maybe this thing was supposed to be used aggressively. If your right hand katana is within striking distance of his body parts then most of the time his longsword tip can reach long past the waki guard. Unlike a sword catcher the waki can not be used to control the longsword. Btw I borrowed his parrying dagger and it changed thing dramatically. It works like a Sai and the forked blade is awesome for catching and deflecting the sword, thus creating an opening.

Let's say you right hand your waki for strike. It works better for me, the only problem is that I cant keep the pressure on him. Maybe you gotta explain how you use the waki and how you manage to get close without compromising your guard because that's always happen to me. A waki lunge is always a gamble for me and sometimes I managed to stab him under the armpit (textbook anti-armor techniques!), but most of the times I got into a clinch and get block with a bigger sword with better leverage and a crucifix guard to the face.



Agree, which is why I said you block AND strike at the same time while he's attacking, thus luring him out of his guard. Difficult to do with two-handed katana unless you are very good at uke nagashi.

I will work on strengthening my wrists during my time at the gym for better control. My Sensei looks like he can dual wield suburito with ease but then that's why he is the Sensei.


Yeah, so much myth surrounds Japanese battle practice nothing is clear anymore. The way it went is that the fancy engraved tsuba you see on almost any swords these days, it was replaced with a plain thick metal/leather tsuba before the samurai goes into battle. So that way they dont damage the shiny tusba. Supposedly the battle tsuba was a lot bigger, thicker and longer. Sometimes you see JSA people put this on their bokken. Big enough to cover the entire hand.

I think unlike in Europe, given the scarcity of steel in Japan people just recycle everything so what were once very popular just one day disapper. Take a look at this:






Apparently the hachi-wari was very popular during battle because the hook can either be used to catch a blade or hook on armor (like how the bill hook was used) but it was certainly not cool to carry around town, so they ended up being melted and made into katana. It is also dull and not sharp to be used as a mace. So much for the JSA guy in the other thread who said a dull steel blade never exists in Japan...



And this is the non-sharp version of the tachi, specifically developed for use against armor. 

I wouldn't call it a version of a tachi. These are too small for that. Here's mine:

which is of typical size. What I once wrote about this: "Tekkan, or tetsu-ken (iron sword). Apparently these were used by merchants who were restricted in what weapons they could legally carry. Supposedly antique, probably 20th century. Sometimes these are described as tea-room swords, intended to allow the habitually-armed (i.e., samurai) to retain the appearance of a sword in the tea room where they were not supposed to have a sword (also being usable as a truncheon). 384g."

There were sword-sized truncheons, like this kanemuchi:

and very long jutte (60-90cm long). But these appear to have been mostly police weapons rather than battlefield maces. The battlefield maces (like the kanabo) were not swordlike.

I agree with both Kiyoshi and Timo's points here. The daisho set is versatile, and the wakizashi is an excellent blocking weapon as long as its used aggressively. I personally find a "dai-dai" to be a better set of weapons though, just because the shorter wakizashi cannot mirror the attack capabilities of a katana. When you have two larger swords, you have longer reach and its easier to connect attacks. For that reason, I think back to when Musashi notes that a short-sword user will flow around, exert lots of energy, and always be on the defensive...which makes me always default back to using a pair of katana as my regular practice set. You don't have to be nearly as aggressive and can close distance more effectively.

To be fair, I've just started practicing with wakizashi very recently. So my views may change significantly as I practice more.

It isn't really optimal to catch the opponent's sword kissaki to kissaki. You have more control over the opponent through better leverage by making the point of contact closer to your tsuba, similar to the idea of manipulating the foible or weak by the forte or strong. If I catch the other dude's sword 5 inches from my tsuba, it really doesn't matter if the rest of the blade is only 10 inches or I have another 30, I'm working off of that point of contact.

Perhaps I am biased because I am tall at 6ft (183cm), but I don't find distance closing to be too tough. I tend to focus more on flowing with two swords, never really giving much time to respond, than I do simultaneous strikes. Often enough, especially with the same length weapon, if you attack at the same time with both, both can be blocked/dodged by the same movement or you wind up binding yourself. Take a cut from the side and thrust, for instance. A sweeping block to the side the cut is coming into can block both. A cut from both sides, either scissor style or double inward style, can both be avoided by a backstep or middle guard or both. Another disadvantage, as stated earlier, is that two long swords are heavier and more easily put off balance. Enough strength can remedy that some, but no matter, a longer sword will always be harder to control, especially in a non dominant hand and therefore be better at wider attack arks. Also, Musashi (and me back in my MA club days ) was known for the occasional wakizashi throw mid fight, something much harder to do with a katana.

The wakizashi throw also works when you have them bound with one hand at a distance (such as them blocking you high while retreating), you throw with the other. I've done so when my wakizashi was in my saya (I made some from golf tubes to help with "realism" of moving around with katana in belt) or my offhand. I've also drawn my wakizashi from my belt and slashed my opponent's stomach when we were in a bind, trying to gain an upper position. I doubt I could have done that with a katana either.

Ah, so, yes, like what I mean by flowing attacks, not letting up enough for your opponent to recover. This is pretty good in some instances for sure. The idea behind the attacks themselves though, is that one doesn't perform a strike that requires a recovery period that can't be covered by the other hand. For instance, the scizor attack I mentioned above would be a no-no. However, a quick horizontal slash with the long sword to cover the advancement of your back foot into a thrust with the wakizashi is a good example. The second important thing is that both strikes must be strikes on their own if blocked. They are not half hearted attacks thrown as feints. One must be weary of counter attackers as well, meaning that you can't have both swords bound at once to a single area. So swinging both swords at once to the same target would result in both attacks being blocked/countered by the same movement, basically negating the advantage of having two weapons in the first place. In instances like that, you won't be able to defend and attack at the same time either. The idea is to keep the flow going by changing speeds and techniques without really coming to a point where you are doing nothing.

One thing to point out is that the wakizashi can block anything a katana can, either that or the attack is too far away to really need to block to start with.

For gyaku nito, that is a preference thing. I can see why some people would prefer the broader strokes with their non-dominant hand as it requires somewhat less finer motor control. As long as you have the strength to make the cuts work, seems okay to me. The right hand would be able to preform more precise thrusts and close in movements (the times I drew and slashed with waki from belt, I did let go with my right hand about half the time to do the drawing). The disadvantage would be that your left hand, being less coordinated and weaker (on average) would tire faster and have trouble with some techniques unless you get that coordination up. If you do, I think it is roughly the same as regular nito except the flip may mess up your opponent's natural reflex against nito if they fight it often.

I don't so much as encourage the approach so much as use the katana to cover my approach. I can strike with the katana and use it to stick to my opponent's weapon and feel where their sword is going and help eliminate certain counters by binding with their sword. For instance, let's say I cut from my left to right and my opponent blocks. Our swords touch with my stance being closed and theirs being centered. I stick my sword to his, just like one would in a bind, as I step in with my back foot and cut at the opponent's head or thrust or some such. My opponent would have to roll around me to avoid this or have moved instead of blocked. If they roll around, my sticky sword rolls with them as I would feel them start to roll and roll with them. This only works if the first cut would kill if it were not blocked, thus avoidance or a quick sweep of my first attack is the most effective counter. Heavy cuts that are thrown in the style of a wet towel (think something that appears light and quick but kind of hardens and wraps up/binds on contact) are good for this.

Another example is this: imagine I cut to my opponent's thigh and they block low. I use the same wet towel cut and keep pressure low as I advance and strike with my wakizashi. The movements don't HAVE to be super fast to work either. They work because your opponent is bound by your first strike.

Thanks, I'm not very good with words most of the time. ^^

Lol. But four swords on your person would probably be rather cumbersome in every day carrying. The two kodachi would probably be a middle ground of sorts. Neither overly strong or weak in any area. It is something I've actually tried very little of due to the rarity of training weapons being made in that size. I've seen someone cut down katana bokken to that size for it, though they didn't come to clubs too often due to being one of those who think martial arts are easy to pick up. I suspect they would be versatile enough to be a middle ground weapon for a middle ground style of fighting. They would probably be easy enough to throw too.

As a silly experiment, I was able to manage three in the obi - katana and tanto in the typical position and the wakizashi in the back. It was a little cumbersome. In an absolute pinch, I could see maybe working the fourth one in if carrying it by hand but it starts getting absurd long before that point.

Just trying to manage a polearm with a daisho can be awkward enough.

Maybe if you used a couple of sword frogs for the katanas and tucked one wakizashi on either side of the obi? Far from traditional, but could work with some fidgeting with wakizashi placement. Then you might even be able to squeeze in a tanto or two while you're at it.