pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 10, 2016 15:34:39 GMT
Thanks for the review. I like, and think it better quality and possibly design than on the Christus Imperat Rapier but at $450 selling price and that I can expect paying double by the time I receive it, that is out of the question. I am still waiting and hoping to find a deal on the Christus Imperat. As nice as that and the specs looks it is not worth $800-$900 to me.
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Post by JGonzalez on Jul 10, 2016 16:26:02 GMT
Aha! There it is. You give it better marks than I would have expected just from looking at the photos. Thank you for your review.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 10, 2016 18:10:53 GMT
Aha! There it is. You give it better marks than I would have expected just from looking at the photos. Thank you for your review. I bought it expecting something nimble. It isn't. It's a rapier. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 10, 2016 20:20:04 GMT
Aha! There it is. You give it better marks than I would have expected just from looking at the photos. Thank you for your review. I bought it expecting something nimble. It isn't. It's a rapier. I suspected as much from CS, but didn’t interpret that from your review. Thanks, now I feel better. |
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Post by Afoo on Jul 10, 2016 22:53:21 GMT
Hmm - it is pretty pricy - almost $100 more than the Windlass Christus rapier. Does the fit and finish warrant the extra cost? I was always disappointed by CS's quality, though maybe things have changed?
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Post by nddave on Jul 10, 2016 23:48:33 GMT
Looks nice but for $450.00 I would expect a little more from this sword than something comparable to what Windlass and Hanwei offer for around $200 less. Also it seems that the riccasso would have benefited from the extra inch as would the guard, allowing it to stretch out a little more and give more finger room. Then again if the grip was shorter it probably would just further the issue with the pommel. Pretty decent looking though and nice bargaining!
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Post by Afoo on Jul 11, 2016 0:49:09 GMT
Looks nice but for $450.00 I would expect a little more from this sword than something comparable to what Windlass and Hanwei offer for around $200 less. Also it seems that the riccasso would have benefited from the extra inch as would the guard, allowing it to stretch out a little more and give more finger room. Then again if the grip was shorter it probably would just further the issue with the pommel. Pretty decent looking though and nice bargaining! My thoughts exactly - though perhaps there is some higher level of finish that is not apparent on the camera. In my mind, the main rival for this would be the Imperat rapier from Windlass, and thats running at around $100 less... The only Rapier-like things from Windlass I have are the Munich cut and thrust, and the Rheinfelden. The overall quality, especially with regards to the smaller details and fluorishes, are much better on this than either of the examples i have. That said, both the Munich and Rheinfelded are very dated examples, and were never meant to have the same level of detail as on the CS. COme to think of it though, asides from the Imperat I do not know of any other Windlass that comes close. I mean, you have the Pilsen, the 17th Century Rapier, and thats about it |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 11, 2016 1:43:01 GMT
Looks nice but for $450.00 I would expect a little more from this sword than something comparable to what Windlass and Hanwei offer for around $200 less. Also it seems that the riccasso would have benefited from the extra inch as would the guard, allowing it to stretch out a little more and give more finger room. Then again if the grip was shorter it probably would just further the issue with the pommel. Pretty decent looking though and nice bargaining! Once you go over the 260.00 mark you get into a grey area. Darkwoods and Del Tin rapiers sell in the 500-700.00 range. This sword represents an intermediate step on the path of small swords for the court and Epee Fortes for the military. This is a step towards doing away with the ricasso void all together. The only thing I would immediately want to change in this historically correct design is to be rid of the egg shape in favor of a bottle stopper or cylinder ellipse that would provide a more controlled placement of the heel of the hand. |
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Post by nddave on Jul 11, 2016 1:46:11 GMT
Looks nice but for $450.00 I would expect a little more from this sword than something comparable to what Windlass and Hanwei offer for around $200 less. Also it seems that the riccasso would have benefited from the extra inch as would the guard, allowing it to stretch out a little more and give more finger room. Then again if the grip was shorter it probably would just further the issue with the pommel. Pretty decent looking though and nice bargaining! My thoughts exactly - though perhaps there is some higher level of finish that is not apparent on the camera. In my mind, the main rival for this would be the Imperat rapier from Windlass, and thats running at around $100 less... The only Rapier-like things from Windlass I have are the Munich cut and thrust, and the Rheinfelden. The overall quality, especially with regards to the smaller details and fluorishes, are much better on this than either of the examples i have. That said, both the Munich and Rheinfelded are very dated examples, and were never meant to have the same level of detail as on the CS. COme to think of it though, asides from the Imperat I do not know of any other Windlass that comes close. I mean, you have the Pilsen, the 17th Century Rapier, and thats about it Well as far as Rapier go yes but then again when you move to the $400-$500 price range you're getting into Del Tin offerings that I feel by appearance and stats are better for even less (even though they're technically small swords). For example the Del Tin French Small Sword is very comparable to this (though a few inches shorter in blade length) at only $406. or their 18th Century Rapier which is just $46 more than the CS and very similar proportionately. Also if you go by KoA pricing (where the Cavalier Rapier is $450.00) The Imperiat and other Windlass rapiers are well around $200-$240 less than the Cavalier. Comparatively we could also look at some of the Hanwei basket hilts and rapiers for comparison in price as they are at the most around $100 less than the CS and seem to have similar fit and finish. There is also the Windlass 18th Century Small Sword that again is comparable but shorter and less intricate. Almost forgot there is also the Dynasty Forge Small Sword for only $309 which again looks comparable to this one. Of course none of the these swords are technically rapier and anything from DelTin in the rapier category adds around $200 and up. So yea for Windlass to come close in comparison with swords for $200 less at minimum and for a little more or less in price you can get a better balanced and put together sword from DelTin, I'd still consider this piece slightly overpriced. For a $100 less I could see this sword taking off but at $450 I don't think it will have enough going for it to compete with the offerings of Windlass and turn people away from the similar or slightly higher offerings from DelTin. Its kind of stuck in the middle pricewise without much validation for the extra $200. The Del Tin French Small Sword 18th Century Rapier   |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 11, 2016 1:54:37 GMT
Windlass has 7 rapiers in the current inventory 8 years ago they had 9. The Munich Town Guard does not seem to get counted as a rapier in the catalogs. The Musketeer Rapier (which is not a real french model; it is a popular German and Spanish individual complex hilt design. )
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Post by Afoo on Jul 12, 2016 16:47:59 GMT
Don't suppose it could be a donor for a blade transplant?
And which ones? I have the 17th century, the Musketeer, Pilsen, Deschaux and Imperat. Mind you, I am going off of whats on KoA, so I may be sampling a smaller subset of their population
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 13, 2016 10:49:07 GMT
Don't suppose it could be a donor for a blade transplant? And which ones? I have the 17th century, the Musketeer, Pilsen, Deschaux and Imperat. Mind you, I am going off of whats on KoA, so I may be sampling a smaller subset of their population Add Italian 17th Cent and Brandenburg Rapiers. (Used to have stuff: Saxon with Main Gauche, Pappenheim, Brass hilt options, Flamberge Rapier |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 13, 2016 12:16:38 GMT
Don't suppose it could be a donor for a blade transplant? And which ones? I have the 17th century, the Musketeer, Pilsen, Deschaux and Imperat. Mind you, I am going off of whats on KoA, so I may be sampling a smaller subset of their population Which is your favourite(s) and why? |
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Post by Afoo on Jul 14, 2016 2:11:42 GMT
Don't suppose it could be a donor for a blade transplant? And which ones? I have the 17th century, the Musketeer, Pilsen, Deschaux and Imperat. Mind you, I am going off of whats on KoA, so I may be sampling a smaller subset of their population Which is your favourite(s) and why? My bad - I don't have any aside fro Munich. I meant "I have" as "I have on my list of rapiers from MRL" :P I wish I had them all... |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 14, 2016 2:38:06 GMT
Which is your favourite(s) and why? My bad - I don't have any aside fro Munich. I meant "I have" as "I have on my list of rapiers from MRL" :P I wish I had them all... I would luv to have them bring back the Saxon set. 40 inch blade! Shades of the A&A vassar rapier. |
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Post by Afoo on Jul 14, 2016 16:45:02 GMT
I would like the Pap - it may not handle as well as it should, but it looks swell :P
I wish they would bring those back rather than the stuff they are reviving now....
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Post by tancred on Jul 14, 2016 22:20:38 GMT
(Used to have stuff: Saxon with Main Gauche, Pappenheim, Brass hilt options, Flamberge Rapier Mr. Kelly, I envy you when you say you used to have Windlass' Flamberge Rapier (and the Pappenheim, for that matter). At first, I didn't like the look of the Flamberge, but then fell in love with the look of the pommel and hilt. Really wish I would have jumped on that one. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 15, 2016 0:28:34 GMT
(Used to have stuff: Saxon with Main Gauche, Pappenheim, Brass hilt options, Flamberge Rapier Mr. Kelly, I envy you when you say you used to have Windlass' Flamberge Rapier (and the Pappenheim, for that matter). At first, I didn't like the look of the Flamberge, but then fell in love with the look of the pommel and hilt. Really wish I would have jumped on that one. Oops. Sorry; meant that in context. MRL used to have those type rapiers as part of their inventory 9 years ago. I do have the Pappenheim. Got that one from Irongate Armory in Finland. |
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Post by tancred on Jul 15, 2016 4:33:23 GMT
Mr. Kelly, I envy you when you say you used to have Windlass' Flamberge Rapier (and the Pappenheim, for that matter). At first, I didn't like the look of the Flamberge, but then fell in love with the look of the pommel and hilt. Really wish I would have jumped on that one. Oops. Sorry; meant that in context. MRL used to have those type rapiers as part of their inventory 9 years ago. I do have the Pappenheim. Got that one from Irongate Armory in Finland. No worries. That's what I get for reading and replying while in a hurry getting ready for work.  I see what you mean now. I think I might be headed down the same path with having to rely on Irongate Armory; I've been looking high and low for Windlass' Erbach Sword. Irongate seems about the only place to have it. I thought I got lucky over the weekend, finding out Southern Swords in the UK had a few in stock. Placed an order, then they emailed me back saying they thought they had one remaining in stock, but then couldn't find it anywhere in the warehouse. The price is going to be brutally high (almost twice the regular price), but I might have to go with Irongate. Back on topic, I do think this rapier is nice looking. I'm just not really big on rapiers to begin with. Already have a couple, so probably wouldn't go for this one. Might go for that Flamberge should I ever see one, though! |
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Post by howler on Jul 20, 2016 5:01:44 GMT
COLD STEEL CAVALIER RAPIER 2016
INTRODUCTION:
Among the new Cold Steel swords added for 2016 is this rapier, identified by Cold Steel as a realization of a type transitional rapier of the mid 17th Century. Typical Cold Steel Insanity lists the sword as 711.00 while wholseales float around the 450.00 mark. Midway Sports attracted attention with an introductory slam of 398.00 for their first month available. I happened to look at their advert for the 4th of July weekend on the first of July. The sword was still listing for 398.00 and a weekend sale bullet said they would knock off an additional 30.00. I got my sword for 369.00 and went and spread the good news to my SBG friends. I got poop and empty beers cans thrown my way, 'cause when folks checked the out the door price was 439.00! Software had caught up and I was one of a lucky few who scored the double discount.
BACKGROUND:
Sword tech was always in "transition" so what does the term mean to the Rapier? Customarily it refers to the end state 17th Century period where dress codes and arms styles moved away from the large hilted, long bladed ostentation that had become the rapier, to something less burdensome, lighter and faster. This turning would be complete when France adopted the small sword as its model for fence at the time of Louis XIV ascension.
CHARACTERISTICS:
Blade: 36.5x.8 inch with a PoB of 1.5 inches above the guard. Blade thickness tapers from 5.4mm at the guard to 3 an inch below the point. The blade is diamond shaped with a fuller of 8 inches in the forte of the blade. Blade is stiff. Also sharp from the factory.
Hilt: The hilt is 7 inches long. The guard plate is a crenelated butterfly plate. The ricasso is only 1 inch deep with two finger loops. The tang is sleeved in a polished cylinder. The quillons are in a fore and aft "s" pattern. Two heavy rings offering lateral protection to the hand and a light knuckle bow extend near the pommel.
Grip: 4 inches long, wire with turks heads fore and aft. Nicely done.
Pommel: 1.5 inches long. Pommel referred to as "egg shaped". Elements are screwed together. No peen.
Scabbard: A black leather unreinforced sheath with metal chape and boot accessories. The chape has a 4 inch long heavy duty clip for securing the scabbard to the belt or baldric used.
CHARACTERISTICS:
The ricasso of this rapier has been reduced to 1 inch, instead of the more typical 2 inches. What is taken away from the ricasso is added to the grip (4 inches instead of 3). The large sphere of the egg shaped pommel is an impediment to bringing the hilt fully into the hand and wrist, in a manner more familiar to modern sword fighting. This restricts line of attacks and play of the sword in a manner typical to the majority of rapier builds.
CONCLUSIONS:
 At 450.00 this is not a discount classed sword anymore. The transitional label might discourage purists who are looking for reach advantage with a 40 inch blade. ( It's live steel. You aren't going to use this in competition anyway.)
At 2.5 lbs this weighs about average for the majority of simpler wire basket hilts employed by rapiers. It is relatively light for the plated and wire gripped 3 lb rapiers of the middle period of rapiers.
The large counter balance pommel is very conventional rapier design. The Windlass Pilsen is much more evolutionary than this.
Positives: - Sound fit and finish
Relatively light weight at 2.5 lbs
Conventional "high style" for a rapier.
Negatives: - It's still a rapier. Same old handling limitations.
Obstructive pommel is traditional, but limits play.
Pricey
Call this a 4/5. I think it's well made. I got a great deal on this, but you won't. So its a tad pricey.
Very interesting. Rapiers seem to just want to poke stuff, evidently, much more so than cut, at any rate. There was a show a few years back, I believe, called Conquest, which talked about the Musketeers, and the weapons used. It spent the 1st half talking about "movie" swordsmanship (Errol Flynn, Zorro, etc...), then had everyone holding the fencing foils (dressed up as rapiers) drop them and tell everybody that everything they were practicing was for dynamic movie entertainment. Then they grabbed the "real stuff"...a different game. That still looks like a pretty sweet rapier (more compact and easy to carry, among other advantages), and you seem to have got within the proper price point. I was one of those people who jumped to your (very) temporary Oasis of a site, only to see that there was sand remaining. Cold Steel is still offering $100 small swords (rust issue 2nds...and they are clearly not rapiers), which at 1 1/2lbs. can still be manipulated by wrist alone, yet are beefy enough to block larger weapons employed against them (which makes their slightly larger than historical average weight a good thing). |
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I see what you mean now. 
