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Post by darth on Jun 11, 2016 2:46:24 GMT
www.coldsteel.com/Product/88SEB/ENGLISH_BACK_SWORD.aspx This arrived today from a Saturday order at Midway USA for just shy of $200 as did a real beater from Kult of Athena, The Warrior sword, scratch and dent for $15 First impressions. It does not feel as heavy as it's listed, the POB is about just shy of 3" and it handles great, really nothing I can do with my Windlass CSA O sword rthat io can;t with this. I've had that other sword almost 2 weeks now but I do work the CS Back Sword much better. The quality to my eye looks good. The plastic handle actually is pretty good for my hand, a small plastic bur to file out of the very top of the grip, but it's like maybe a 20 second job after I get off my ass and get the files out. One thing that slightly concerned me and my friend, but neither of us have ever held a back sword and that's that the blade is a good deal more flexible than my saber. IDK if they are supposed to be like that? The thing came nasty sharp out of the book and some low branches and leaves got trusted and cut, with about 3-4 strokes, even hitting a thicker barnch I did not see and it severed it. I have to get my son to show me how to use the camera on his Nintendo thing and figure out how to post picks up here. I am going to wait until I have the Bavarian Officer's sword Tuesday, and then gather up a review on this blade and the antique. www.coldsteel.com/Product/88SEB/ENGLISH_BACK_SWORD.aspx
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Post by Afoo on Jun 11, 2016 4:19:36 GMT
Nice - I was worried it would be a cumbersome beast.
Whats the front of the guard look like? None of the promotional pics seem to show it...
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Post by darth on Jun 11, 2016 4:36:38 GMT
I must apologise for being the last guy to not have a working digital camera (besides the foggy POS on my early 2000's flip phone and cant seem to know how to pull of posting pics on an internet forum that's not facebook. But it's my daughter's 7th bithday party and mom is getting a digital camera, so I will be taking pics of this sword, the Windlass CSA "Cavalry" Saber and for sure the Bavarian Officers Sword and giving reviews from my limited frame of reference of being new ot western swords for the most part, knives, kukris and such I know well. His screen name escapes me, but it was his mini review in the thread I started on basket hilt swords that lead me to this, and the price I found was hot, that helped.
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Post by bfoo2 on Jun 11, 2016 5:49:43 GMT
No working digital camera? Don't tell me you're writing this post on a typewriter too... Good to hear you like it. Might be decent competition for the Hanwei Cromwell? (which is one myself and Afoo have been eyeing for some time). Although the idea of a Cold Steel product NOT being nose-heavy is still rather shocking to me.
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Post by crisock on Jun 11, 2016 6:00:02 GMT
I have some photos of the front of the guard I can post tomorrow.(Too tired to find them tonight)
I got mine a month or two ago and was initially very impressed with the sword as well. It handled really well and the first initial cuts were flawless, until it decided to snap in half within a week of owning it. The vibration of hitting a water bottle snapped it clean in half. Cold steel are sending me a replacement(should be here next week) but I thought I would let you know that they've had at least one defective sword from their initial batch so far.Hopefully you won't have the same experience! It is a beautiful sword otherwise.
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Post by darth on Jun 11, 2016 7:11:11 GMT
Oh boy.
Better get all the paperwork in order and check everything is in order.
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Post by darth on Jun 11, 2016 7:14:19 GMT
No serial number on the thing.
maybe I can go through and find out it's number and find out if it's from the first batch?
I did expect the steel to be thicker?
Are back swords fairly flexible historically?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 11, 2016 7:56:47 GMT
Measuring a 17th century backsword blade: Thickness at base: 6.5mm Thickness at start of back edge: just under 4mm. Thickness 2" from tip: just under 2mm. This blade is currently in Indian mounts, but is a long European cavalry backsword blade: The back edge starts just after the top fuller terminates.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 15:56:12 GMT
I had posted my impressions in this thread, along with a few pictures. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/48089/reproduction-basket-hilt-broadswords-backswordsI am not sure how you are measuring pob but I lay the sword blade on a flat surface and measure the point at which the hilt lifts the blade. Almost an inch difference from my measure and what you got. As to flexibility, The Windlass CSA sword likely has less dstal taper and is thicker at the point. Measure both at the thickest section at various points of the blades. I get a linear distal taper of 6mm-2mm. Calipers are not a requisite but will help over time as you study swords. You can eyeball thickness with a ruler, sighting down a blade's back. My first India made saber has very little distal taper, hence pretty stiff Many historic swords are fairly flexible in comparison to many reproductions of the same genre. Distal taper and blade cross section aid in mass distribution and cutting. It is the fairly neutral feel of this backsword, along with a thinner cutting area that set it apart from your Windlass sword. The period 1820s-1830s mounted artillery sword I had bought specifically as a cutter is more flexible than this backsword. Many other of the dozens of period sabres and backswords/spadroons are more flexible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 16:06:10 GMT
I have some photos of the front of the guard I can post tomorrow.(Too tired to find them tonight) I got mine a month or two ago and was initially very impressed with the sword as well. It handled really well and the first initial cuts were flawless, until it decided to snap in half within a week of owning it. The vibration of hitting a water bottle snapped it clean in half. Cold steel are sending me a replacement(should be here next week) but I thought I would let you know that they've had at least one defective sword from their initial batch so far.Hopefully you won't have the same experience! It is a beautiful sword otherwise. Pictures or it never happened? The front of the guard is shown in my post in this thread. I am curious where on the blade it broke. Can you get a picture of the steel grain size? Remember, it is the last third of the sword where it will cut well. I was experiencing no vibration in cutting a mat. Bottles can be hell on swords if they are dead blow baseballing. My first mat cut was not cleanly through but was not a dead blow. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/48089/reproduction-basket-hilt-broadswords-backswords
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 16:10:12 GMT
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jun 11, 2016 16:28:31 GMT
No serial number on the thing. maybe I can go through and find out it's number and find out if it's from the first batch? I did expect the steel to be thicker? Are back swords fairly flexible historically? The antique basket hilt broadsword and backswords that I have handled that are dated in the 100 are thin and flexible on the foible of the blade. The broadsword that is dated 1599 is still thin but is stiffer that the later ones, probably because armor was still in use. Mortuary hilts were in use in the mid 17th century and armor was still in use then. From.what I read about backswords is that they were stiffer than the broadswords but from the antiques I have seen tell a different story. I would have to see it either in person, picture, or video to tell how flexible it is but I doubt that it is to flexible.
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Post by Afoo on Jun 11, 2016 23:37:38 GMT
As a note, I find that there can be a great degree of variation between production swords from India - for example my Windlass 1906 has a PoB ~0.7 inches further out than Dave's example; the thickness of the blade at the base and 1' from the point is -0.7 mm and +0.7 mm respectively as well. Similar variation is observed between my Princess of Wales and some of the other stats posted on the forums, etc. This is not unique to repros either - my original 1906 (Ames) is 0.2 lb lighter than Kelly's original 1906. My brother and I also had a pair of 1885's with vastly different stats. I guess my point is that sword stats fall along a distribution rather than an exact value. As such, all values reported here and elsewhere on the forums should be interpreted as representative values only - if you purchase the same item, you may get one with very different stats. Thats why whenever I buy a sword which already has a review on SBG, I try to post my stats up as well, just to give people an idea of the variation they can expect within a given product line. Also, no clue how I missed your first impressions. Thanks for posting that up. That ray skin looks disappointing - was one of the reasons I got rid of my 1852 Prussian. Curious how you and Darth find the grip shape - does it fit the hand well?
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Post by darth on Jun 12, 2016 18:21:15 GMT
Once I filled a small plastic burrr off the top of the grip, I like this grip. I's cheesy plastic as Edelweiss said, but I don;t mind it, feels like my Glock. I might wrap it though, as I have not been real sweaty with it yet.
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Post by howler on Jun 21, 2016 21:51:24 GMT
I have some photos of the front of the guard I can post tomorrow.(Too tired to find them tonight) I got mine a month or two ago and was initially very impressed with the sword as well. It handled really well and the first initial cuts were flawless, until it decided to snap in half within a week of owning it. The vibration of hitting a water bottle snapped it clean in half. Cold steel are sending me a replacement(should be here next week) but I thought I would let you know that they've had at least one defective sword from their initial batch so far.Hopefully you won't have the same experience! It is a beautiful sword otherwise. This is my first post on this forum. I ordered one (CS Eng. Backsword) a few months back and noticed how lively it felt in hand...and then how flexible (whippy) the blade seemed, especially when compared to CS swords in general (many of which I own). So I put the thing on a postal scale and it weighted darn near NINE OUNCES LESS than advertised. Next I measured the width at the hilt, which was less than 4mm...but advertised at 6mm. This seemed/seems much more than mere product variation, so I called Cold Steel and they picked the thing up for analysis. I'm not sure what to do at this point, but thought you folks would like to know (keep track of weights/measures/variations). I'll let you know how this turns out, as Cold Steel has been very good at addressing issues (as it is a new product).
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Post by Afoo on Jun 24, 2016 2:05:51 GMT
Thanks for the heads up. I usually compare the stats I get to the ones available on the reviews section if possible. I have seen variation on the thickness of the bladea of around 0.7-1mm tops, but 2mm seems really far off....
Hope it works out.
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Post by howler on Jun 24, 2016 6:52:12 GMT
Afoo, I called them today (60 day return warranty from Knife Center is about to expire) and they said mine was defective and that they would hand pick one out to send to me within the next 3 or 4 days. It was a bit odd that I needed to call them back, but talked to Dylan, who was helpful, and it worked out for the best. I told him I wanted something as close to 6mm blade thickness at the base as possible, as taper and lightness would/could be a good thing while giving strength to where swords usually break (hilt). I'll continue to inform you (and all) as to what I receive, and if I deem it worthy of keeping or sending back to Knife Center, who I called, and will give me a grace period to inspect before deciding. It REALLY did feel good in the hand...and was beautiful. This sword may be another of Cold Steels efforts to offer a more historically accurate (and lively) product, like their (to me, anyway) Italian Longsword. A lot of their "beefier" stuff is still quite good, don't get me wrong, like their Small Sword, Swept Hilt Rapier (a sub 3lb. beast when paired with the Crab Claw Dagger...old school heavy rapier...you really want the dagger in off hand), and 1796 LC Saber.
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Post by Afoo on Jun 27, 2016 22:18:25 GMT
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Post by howler on Jun 28, 2016 4:27:24 GMT
This must not have been on Athena site for very long. Now I'm real concerned about the thickness, as my sword will probably be showing up...gulp...TOMORROW! The stats on mine were only about 2/3 of an ounce less in weight, but were also (of more concern) even less than 4mm (difficult to get an EXACT measurement without calipers (I think they are called). Mine was originally shipped the last week of April, so I don't know what/when Athena did their thing. I would HATE to keep this thing, then have CS change to a thicker (better) version in the near future. Dylan at CS told me squires and such (understudies) would carry multiple swords as old world weapons would often break (interesting). I like my blades to be a bit more robust, as they can be more relied on for defensive purposes (not that I'm a madman who thinks about taking edge to bad guys flesh or anything), but just like the idea of my specimens having that ability. In short, I wont have a squire at my back if my "tool" breaks on an intruders machete/baseball bat/tire iron/etc... (where is a good squire when you need one, anyway). I'll let you know what comes next, Afoo....soon, I assume, and thank YOU for the heads up on Athena. This may be what I get for jumping in at the beginning (potentially to soon) when a new item comes out...but when did you ever hear of a CS sword being TOO LIGHT, instead of too beefy? I REALLY would love a sword with more taper and a base of around 6mm, but the same weight as they now have it (around 2 1/2lbs...instead of the original near 3lbs weight claim)...as this would have been perfect, I think (then again, I'm no expert).
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 29, 2016 18:08:48 GMT
I would be interested in knowing what you received. Below is an answer from someone on Amazon in response to my question. Sorry, but you will have to open the link as I have it in docx format. Mortuary Sword.docx (138.69 KB)
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