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Post by Marthor on May 1, 2016 0:00:10 GMT
I've always displayed my Katana cutting edge up because I learned a long time ago this is the proper way to respect the blade. I've been into swords since before the internet.
My question is, does anybody know any reference material or source that says this is true? I think it's a widely held tradition and I personally believe this is true, but I'm curious about the origin of where it came from. Thanks for any help.
Additionally, even if you don't have a reference to answer the question, speak up if you've also heard this and you also display edge up.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on May 1, 2016 0:11:17 GMT
A katana is traditionally displayed edge-up, but a tachi is displayed edge-down (if on a horizontal rack, rather than a vertical stand). AFAIK, this is just because that's the way they are worn.
Sato, "The Japanese Sword: A Comprehensive Guide" says this, and adds that hilts are to the left. This is often explained as making it harder to grab the sword from the rack and draw and fight (because if you grab the scabbard with your left hand, the hilt is on the wrong side). But note that hilt to the left means the side of the sword facing you is the same side that faces out when the sword is worn.
If the blade is displayed bare on the same rack as the fittings (held together by a wooden "blade"), the blade usually goes on top, and the fittings on the bottom. If displaying a daisho, katana above and wakizashi below.
When displaying either a katana or tachi on a vertical tachi stand, the blade is away from the viewer (and towards the stand); this is for stability.
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Post by wazikan on May 1, 2016 0:32:30 GMT
There are probably hundreds of reasons for different traditions. The way I learned is the edge always points towards God. Stored edge up with the tsuka on the right is wartime the left side peace time. Because on the right you can pick up and draw in the same movement. In the dojo you always keep the sword pointed away from the shomen.
As to the tsuka on the left or right. Here's a poem that I'm going to butcher
In warwime the warrior keeps his blade close. In peacetime even closer
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 1:14:52 GMT
The simple answer is if you want to show off the prettier side, you would have the handle to the left. Better visual flow, if there is a seam in the rayskin handle it would be turned away from you, if you use a sageo that's where the pretty knot is, even if the sword is in a bag that's where you'd have its pretty knot. It's the omote. And it's just the nicer looking side.
There's a ton of factors and I'm probably only aware of a handful, most have to do with pointing the sword - for example not at the kamiza / shrine (if you have one, for example at a dojo) which was already covered, not stored where they'd be pointing at visitors coming in the door. Personally I try to make sure it's not pointed in the general direction of anybody I care about - not at bedrooms etc. That's just my personal preferences, I'm probably extending the metaphor further than it needs to go, but it isn't hurting anyone.
I was told to put my sword in the stand with the handle to the right, so I put the handle to the right. If other people find references for why one side and not the other, I'd love to read 'em. I still like digging into some of this weird stuff.
As Timo mentioned, the tachi is basically the same deal, its just upside down.
In *general*, the tsuka should be pointed to the left. Exceptions are if you were specifically instructed to do otherwise, are a try-hard, or prefer it that way and don't care what anyone else thinks.
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Post by johnbu on May 1, 2016 4:24:39 GMT
Given the other threads about "samurai traditions", I tend to wonder if there was a simpler origin to the blade up. Seems the cutting edge would be protected from moisture that might condense or be in the wooden stand. After all, it is very humid in Japan and fighting rust was probably a constant battle.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on May 1, 2016 4:31:28 GMT
For hundreds of years, edge-down was usual. The katana (in the strict sense, i.e., the blade in katana mounts rather than tachi mounts) only became popular in the (late?) 14th century. If there was a large functional difference between edge-down and edge-up for storage on a rack, earlier swords (i.e., tachi) might have been stored edge-up rather than edge-down.
Katana being worn edge-up follows from them being worn through the obi - try wearing it edge-down and see how well that works. Similarly, you can have a bit of fun trying to hang a tachi from the belt edge-up.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 5:08:34 GMT
It's as simple as off the stand, into the belt. It's not terribly complicated.
Rust / moisture would have been just as much of a problem for a tachi as for an uchigatana / katana. The tachi was primarily used as a cavalry weapon. When the transition to infantry happened, the weapon evolved to change the degree and location of the curvature and better fit it's newer role. If it didn't there wouldn't be much of a reason to change.
I don't even really know what kind of sword racks were in common use at the time tachi were popular. Maybe they were all upright and they didn't even worry about the katana kake until much further along the line and by then the convention was already established. If they were, same point stands, off the rack, tied on to the belt. No flipping or fumbling required.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on May 1, 2016 6:15:07 GMT
The early Japanese literature is AFAIK silent on how swords were racked. Polearms were racked either horizontally or vertically, usually horizontally indoors, and usually vertically at an outdoor guard post. I don't know of any very old surviving racks.
I don't understand your point about wearing the swords, which makes me think you didn't understand my point about wearing swords. My point was that if you wear the sword through the obi, edge-up works better than edge-down (regardless of which way you might store it in a rack), and the other way around for slung horizontally from the belt (especially on horseback). I think that edge-up and edge-down wear follow functionally from wearing through the obi at the waist, or slung lower down, for ease of wear and draw rather than for keeping the edge from touching the inside of the saya or protection from moisture. "Modern" (Edo and onwards?) racking standards for edge-up and edge-down follow stylistically rather than functionally from edge-up and edge-down wear.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 12:20:36 GMT
Exactly - the tachi was worn edge down, and it was primarily used from horseback. As cavalry use declined, more people were carrying swords on foot and discovered it was much easier to draw when they wore it stuck through the belt with the belt edge up. Like you say, it just works easier. We're in agreement.
The swords are displayed / stored as they are worn. Edge up or down as the case may be, with the omote facing outward. If you had some decorative element on it like a mon or the like, it would be totally clear which side is intended to be up as many of them have a clear top and bottom.
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Post by jammer on May 1, 2016 19:38:55 GMT
Japaneee sword etiquette is that swords should be stored with the blade's edge not facing toward the kamiza, so up is good or towards the wall if laying on the floor. The kissaki should be pointing away from the kamiza, if being stored on the opposite wall to the kamiza a line is imagined projecting from the kamiza at a right angle to the opposite (usually the door) wall. Kissaki should face away from that imaginary line towards the respective corner. The cutting edge should also still face away from the kamiza, or to be more precise just not towards it.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on May 1, 2016 20:37:03 GMT
Exactly - the tachi was worn edge down, and it was primarily used from horseback. As cavalry use declined, more people were carrying swords on foot and discovered it was much easier to draw when they wore it stuck through the belt with the belt edge up. Like you say, it just works easier. Gravity also makes it want to sit edge-up, when through the belt. If the blade was straight, then it would only depend on ease of draw. Slung from the belt vertically or at a steep angle, with the hilt near the hip, lets you use either edge-forward or edge-back (and both are/were used).
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LH
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Post by LH on May 7, 2016 18:37:06 GMT
I once read that the katana is stored edge up so no evil spirit can go into the blade because of the sharp edge. Don't know if this was the case when katanas were actually used but it has stuck in my mind ever since I read about it.
Same source says that the hilt should be to the left to show your guests that you trust them and have no ill intentions (because you can't grab it so easily with your right hand).
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Post by Verity on May 8, 2016 18:31:31 GMT
I shall provide what knowledge I have gathered over the years. Caveat emptor: there may be some nuances of Japanese culture I am not aware of but many I am.
Displaying katana in a traditional manner (hilt left, edge up), stems from a few reasons: 1.) in Japanese culture many objects possess a public and private side. In the Japanese sword this manifests as the omote and ura sides, demonstrated in a couple of manifestations: 1.a.) a blade that is signed katana mei will have the smiths signature on the side that is facing outward when displaying the blade with the nakago to the left and the edge upwards 1.b.) the ura/omote knots are also tied such that the omote side is facing outwards when nakago is to the left and edge is upwards. 1.c.) this manner mimics the side others would see when the samurai is wearing the sword. Tsuba also have an omote side and a ura side such that the omote side is facing toward the kashira and faces a stranger when the blade is worn.
One good quote a friend used to really galvanize this point. Having the private side facing out and public facing in is like taking an honored guest into your home and seat them in a corner facing the wall.
2.) displaying a blade with the tsuka to the right implies combat readiness. When Japan was in a time of war or distress blades would be faced in this direction. This is not dissimilar to the notion of flying a flag half mast as a sign of national tragedy or mourning in the United States and some other countries.
3.) displaying a blade edge upwards has both a respect meaning (see point #1 in terms of public and private sides, as well as a practical one as the saya is designed such that the edge never touches the saya and by displaying edge up it is ensured there is no stress placed on the edge.
Now with tachi this can get interesting as the sides are reversed. Usually tachi are displayed vertically, or edge down, but this can also place stress on the edge. Incidentally due to point #1 it CAN be displayed edge up with the tsuka to the RIGHT as that is the public side facing outwards, but to the untrained eye this could be construed as a sign of hostility. Most historical Japanese would have known to recognize the tachi's omote side and not take this same offense or misconstrue a hostile meaning. The omote side supersedes all.
What can now really complicate things is a blade, signed tachi mei, but living in katana mounts and not tachi ones. In this case you have the signature and the koshirae at direct odds with one another. I believe in this case the koshirae would have been used to imply the appropriate direction.
So insofar as I understand, valid and appropriate displays of them are: katana - edge up, omote side out (tsuka to the left) tachi - vertical, edge down with omote side out (which would be tsuka to the left), OR the lesser known edge up, tsuka to the right which is also omote side outwards.
The position of placement in the home is also relevant. It is usually desired to have the kissaki of any blade pointed away from the door, I knowingly am not following this procedure in my home however, as wall space practicality supersedes that subtlety.
I hope this helps.
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Post by mrcell on Nov 14, 2021 3:59:25 GMT
Interesting stuff and a diversity of thought on display. My own recollection from many years ago (enough that I don't recall where I heard it) is that the blade should be stored cutting edge up so that regularly applied oil settles away from the edge while stored in the scabbard.
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Post by MichaelRS on Nov 14, 2021 7:38:03 GMT
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