Antique Chinese dao

Thanks for sharing. Can you put words around those other swords. Don't forget pictures.

Thanks for your the comments and interest. Below are some some more  pics of my antiques. They are from the mid to end 19th century.


-Dadao from the south-eastern regions of China. Bamboo hilt, rattan wrap.



-Hudiedao (butterfly swords)



-Shuang duan jian (double short swords), made in Lungchuan.  Horn grips, traces of 'battle nicks'. All fittings complete, which is seldom seen.



-The liuyuedao has about the same length of the Hanwei practical kung fu sword.



Thank you for looking. All comments are welcome. Also, it's nice to see that the interest in Chinese swords is growing.

Hi John. Welcome to SBG! You have an amazing antique collection. I really like the long hudiedao and shuang jian. I love double short swords, and any time I have googled them, the pictures that have come up that I've drooled over look exactly like your blades. I really want a set, but antiques get very expensive, especially the rarer forms of blades

Have you weighed them? Measurements such as length, weights are good for comparison with replicas. Even better are things like POB and thicknesses of blade (near guard, mid-blade, near tip) since these are so rarely given in books, for museum specimens, etc. (Pivot points, too!)



The long pointy hudiedao are the most common antique style. There's a lot of variation in size.

There are lots of different Chinese twin weapons, and twin short jian aren't that unusual. Not as common as solo short jian, but much more common than twin long jian (probably because short jian are so much more common than long jian, for 19th and early 20th century antiques).

For these short jian (single or twin), the trick is to try to get a good one. They were made in large numbers for tourist sale, and for decorative (or feng shui) use, and the tourist/deco ones vary from good blades through to soft not-even-heat-treated blades. One can find top quality sanmei blades in fitting identical to those on junk blades.

If you want to look for these, they're often described as "river pirate swords". Only a small minority would have been used by pirates, but it's a common label.

I don't know of anybody who makes/sells good functional twin jian replicas.

Here are my only twin jian, long rather than short:

20th century, I think. Fairly light thin blades (the swords are 470g and 480g), so likely made for decorative/tourist purposes. Triangular section blades, as common for twin jian. The scabbard has two separate compartments for the two swords, with a thin piece of wood between them.



Looks like the Hanwei oxtail.

...Regarding western sabres: I really like the model 1796 British sabre with its wide blade and strong curve, and I would love to have a sabre from the American civil war. I have some rimfire revolvers from that period, but that's another story.

...I found these by lurking for hidden treasures on sites for 2nd hand items. Except for the dadao, which I bought from a dealer specialized in etnographic swords.




Thank you, Bennett. Nice thing about Chinese antique weapons is that they are scarce but affordable for the average wallet. For the price that I've paid for these altogether, you can buy one high end production sword of just under $1000,-


@ pgandy:
The last dao is the Hanwei oxtail sword, indeed.


@ Timo Nieminen:
Thanks for the comments. I haven't weighed them, but here are some other specs:

-Dadao: Blade length: 61 cm / 23,6"  Pob: 14 cm / 5,5" Thickness near guard: 0,9cm / 0,35"

-Butterfly swords: Blade length: 48 cm / 18,9" Pob: 11 cm / 4,3" Thickness near guard: 1 cm / 0,4 "

-Liuyuedao: Blade length: 71 cm / 27,9" Pob: 22 cm / 8,6"  Thickness near guard: 0,8 cm / 0,31"
This one is a bit tip-heavy but  a great training sword, a good reminder that power comes from the waist.

Regarding the double jian swords: The blades of mine feel tough and sturdy. Under the right angle, I can see pattern layered steel. Maybe   I will do a light polish and etching to see if an inserted edge can be revealed.

What are your impressions of the Hanwei Oxtail Sword and how does it compare to other Chinese swords of the period? Handling is a subjective thing I know. I like mine finding it an excellent cutter, fast, and easily managed. On the other hand I find the blade a bit thin and the sword as a whole light for combat wishing that it had a tad more substance. I suppose that’s the trade off.

Sometimes I'm lucky to be the first one to react on advertisements from people who want to get rid of their granddad's old stuff. And just once in a long while, some of this old stuff contain Boxer rebellion 'souvenirs' People don't value these swords as much as we do. The one his trash is another man's treasure. I didn't get these swords overnight. There were several years in between every purchase.



Haven't handled any antique niuweidao swords to make a comparison. I do agree that this one is a great cutter. I also like the plain no-nonsense fittings. This is my favorite production dao-sword in my collection. This sword is not heavy, but despite its shorter length, it's still heavier than the Hanwei practical kung-fu sword,. It has the right size for practicing in my work-out room which I turned into a Chinese style training place, straight out of a 70's Hong Kong Shaw brothers movie



Thank you for these specs! With your info, I'm now sure that my blade wasn't shortened, and that these late military Qing blades were made in several sizes. Can't wait to see the pics. Please do post them.

Mandarinmansion.com and of course Scott Rodell's websites are my main sources for knowledge.

The standard carry (at least Ming and later) for normal full-length swords is two suspension loops on the scabbard (on the spine side for dao), with a cord, which will attach to a belt hook with either a hook on the cord through a ring on the belt hook, or vice versa, or a hook on each, or similar. This allows quick removal, and perhaps scabbards were removed before duels. Soldiers would keep them on. A belt hook repro can be seen at
www.mandarinmansion.com/items/belt-hook-4
Cavalry appear to worn the sword fairly low (beside the thigh), judging from artwork. Infantry may have worn them higher, against the very top of the thigh, or against the hip. Qing soldiers often wore the dao with the hilt backwards, so that the hilt wouldn't get in the way of the lower limb of the bow when shooting (note that the Qing bow was much longer than the Ming bow).

Short dao could either be hung like longer dao, or have the scabbard tucked through a belt or waistband (usually at the front or the back, rather than the side like a katana), or if short enough, might be hung vertically, attached to the belt by a cord from a loop at the top of the scabbard. Some knives have a single ring, but must have been tucked through a belt since the COB of the knife and scabbard together is above the ring (so it would turn upside-down if just suspended from the ring); in this case, the cord was used to tie the scabbard to the belt (like sageo to obi).

Some art shows long two-handed dao scabbards through the belt, katana-style at the side. Some photos and art show scabbard carried on the back (civilians, and Republican soldiers). Dadao would be carried slung over the back, with a cord from the ring pommel to the hole in the tip of the blade, with no scabbard. Some art and photos show scabbards being carried in the hand (civilians).

The standard two-point suspension appears to arrive with Central Asian style P-mounts, which were adopted post-Han. The standard Han and earlier sword carry was using the scabbard slide, with the belt passing through the scabbard slide, and the scabbard worn between belt and body. The scabbard slide was used all the way from China to Ireland; the European version is often called a "strap bridge" or just "bridge".

Most "one-ring mounts" I've seen are actually two-ring mounts with one ring missing. There are a few rare old exceptions. The dao in the OP has one ring, but this looks like a later replacement for the original two-ring mounts (compare with the chape). It's a late Qing cavalry sword, and those all used two-ring suspension. One-ring carry can work, e.g., as used for shashkas, but Chinese use for full-size swords is rare.

(I've seen one old jian with 4-ring mounts, two on each side of the scabbard (Roman gladius-style).)

Photo added (to the post with the specs)!