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Post by Jason Summer on Mar 10, 2016 5:10:59 GMT
This is a tricky situation. We don't have matts, so tripping him would lead to concussions, and his spinning lasts too long for me to just jump back, then forward strike, and as he spins, he moves away, so I'm not close enough anymore. Ever time I try to parry the move, it just goes right through. He spins too fast for me to jump in when his back is turned. He's also 11 andvery frail, so I need to disarm him without hurting him.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 10, 2016 5:14:01 GMT
If he is spinning more than once, work on spacing by realizing the end of his reach, step in as the tip passes, then come in and grab him from behind. That is something that is hard to do if you don't have good timing/spacing, but all the more reason to work on those things.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Mar 10, 2016 5:18:01 GMT
Just let him spin until he wears out or gets dizzy.
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Post by Jason Summer on Mar 10, 2016 5:27:06 GMT
If he is spinning more than once, work on spacing by realizing the end of his reach, step in as the tip passes, then come in and grab him from behind. That is something that is hard to do if you don't have good timing/spacing, but all the more reason to work on those things. But if I am only a little off, I'm going to get whacked with a sword.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 10, 2016 6:05:04 GMT
Hence the practice part. Do drills with him instead of just sparring. One thing I liked to do is learn range. Each person hold a weapon. Stand facing each other. One person is the "attacker," the other is the "defender." The defender moves to where they believe the closest they can get without being in range of the opponent with one step's movement. Once the person is confident, the attacker attacks with a basic attack taking one step. If you are really far away, get closer, if you are too close, take a step back. Swap roles and repeat. Feel the range, get used to it. After you get used to one, switch it up. Start giving yourself time limits, you only have 5 seconds to decide, one second, then make it like a turn based sparring. Swing and step, move, they swing and step, move, repeat. Eventually spacing will become second nature and you won't worry about getting hit. There are also very cheap padding options. I personally really like these. They provide excellent protection and are very comfortable. What is your age if you don't mind sharing?
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Post by wazikan on Mar 10, 2016 15:03:09 GMT
with a wide spin attack just step back drop the tip of your sword as he passes your body just raise up the tip and skewer him. One of the benefits of a trained swordsman is not overextending yourself or your weapon. . When attacking your blade even when missing is still in front of you so to speak. It's not way off to the side. Untrained people are always fun to train with. Mainly because they tend to attack you in ways a trained man/woman would not. And sometimes they even get the best of you. But that's what makes it fun
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Post by Derzis on Mar 10, 2016 18:26:40 GMT
Move around him. Don't stay in same spot, allowing him to launch his spin attack. 90% of spinning attacks go from left -circle-right for a right handed guy. Circle around him {against his (circular) attack sense if you want to attack on his attack or the other sense if you just want to evade } and he will not be comfortable to initiate it. With short range weapons against his long sword you have little options - and I don't see you attacking when he decided in his mind and not yet launched his attack. 2 shorties against 1 long are great when you can block his with 1st and attack with 2nd. Otherwise change strategy.
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Post by zabazagobo on Mar 10, 2016 22:26:38 GMT
Move around him. Don't stay in same spot, allowing him to launch his spin attack. 90% of spinning attacks go from left -circle-right for a right handed guy. Circle around him {against his (circular) attack sense if you want to attack on his attack or the other sense if you just want to evade } and he will not be comfortable to initiate it. With short range weapons against his long sword you have little options - and I don't see you attacking when he decided in his mind and not yet launched his attack. 2 shorties against 1 long are great when you can block his with 1st and attack with 2nd. Otherwise change strategy. What Derzis said. If closing the distance is too difficult, toss one of your shorter weapons into his back as he passes in his circular motion. The other thing to keep in mind, if he's spinning continuously (like Link does), he will likely eventually get disoriented and his footwork will get messy. Pay attention to his posture and footwork and when you notice lethargy or sloppy footwork, he's off balance. Attacking him at that point would be a good idea.
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Post by Dapper Blades on Mar 15, 2016 16:36:56 GMT
"How do I avoid a spin attack where I'm at a weapon disadvantage, and refuse to... hit him in the head tackle him while his back is turned sweep the leg grapple/takedown use timing..."
My answer is that you don't. He starts spinning, you walk away, grab yourself some lemonade and wait for a a training partner you're not afraid to throw to the ground.
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 15, 2016 17:39:32 GMT
Part of the solution is to use your weapons for both defense and offense. For example if you have a longsword and someone spins, you don't just stab them in the back, you stab them under the cover of the blade. That means ochs of pflug, with the sword providing angles of protection against the incoming blade and closing off your flank. Or with a single sword, it may mean using the left hand to grab the back of the left arm and neutralize the spin as you attack.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Apr 9, 2016 17:27:49 GMT
Hello All,
I have been away from this forum for well over a year and like what I see in the structural changes. Bravo!
I am fascinated by this discussion since I am a novelist and in my last three books which deal with considerable swordplay, I have written whirling attacks several times. of course they always worked since I control the outcome. My background is in Japanese swordsmanship and since my characters fight with longswords I have been forced to take up European renaissance and 18th century swordplay in order to be able to write the fight scenes with believable accuracy. I'm studying and practicing with the sabre and the rapier. In reality, would you ever recommend the spinning cut as a technique for any of these, sabre, rapier or longsword?
I Await Your Wisdom, Rob Dorsey, Author RobDorsey.com
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 9, 2016 20:28:26 GMT
In reality, would you ever recommend the spinning cut as a technique for any of these, sabre, rapier or longsword? Mostly, no. There are two exceptions: - Multiple opponents: Sometimes, the best option to turn to hit an approaching 2nd opponent is to turn "the wrong way", i.e., to spin. For details, see Jogo do Pau. It's a Portuguese stick-fighting art, with relevance to longsword fighting, and unusual in that it includes significant training in one-on-many. See
for an example of spins in one-on-many (in this video, and others, you'll see them use spins in one-on-one, but I think that's training for the one-on-many case). - Against a polearm: Ideally, one uses sword and shield/buckler, but rapier and dagger might work (I haven't tried it), and it can be done with a longsword or a single one-handed sword. Scenario: the polearm user thrusts for you, middle of body. They are holding their polearm with right hand forward. You block with the shield/weapon held in your left hand, from your left, to push the thrust across your body. You stay in contact with the polearm, to try to immobilise it. You now want to try to close, to reach the polearm user. So use the spin! Stay in contact, and close in with a spin, rolling along the polearm haft. You keep contact, close quickly, keep your vulnerable torso away from the polearm's pointy end, and try to hit them as you complete the spin.
This works OK, and can work very well, especially if it comes as a big surprise to the opponent. Apart from having played with this technique, I've also seen it in Chinese sword forms.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Apr 10, 2016 7:19:25 GMT
^ What he said. With a sword and fighting one opponent, making a complete spin to deliver a strike is essentially a suicidal exposure and telegraph in trade for an unnecessary amount of wind-up in the cut. It would be more prudent, if you really feel the need to deliver maximum energy, to remain facing the opponent and bring the sword up in a loose circle behind your back to deliver a very loaded strike from the other side.
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Post by MOK on Apr 10, 2016 11:12:19 GMT
Spinning around DOES NOT add ANY energy to your strike, anyway. It seriously doesn't. The movement is simply too slow.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 11, 2016 1:06:40 GMT
It'll add some, unless it's mis-timed (spin, stop, strike). The classic Obi-wan vs Darth Vader spin in SWIV adds less than using legs/hip/core while standing still. In that kind of case, it does add power to the strike, but not usefully, since you can add more without spinning.
Done right, it can add a reasonable amount, just as stepping with a strike can add some. (This is easier with spins where you step, rather than spins where you stay on one spot.) A spinning backhand cut is biomechanically similar to a spinning backfist, where the spin does help power the strike. In this case, a well-timed spin, stepping forward during the spin, can probably add more power than you get standing still or stepping forward without spinning.
You shouldn't ever spin in order to add power. But if you're going to spin anyway (for some other tactical reason), then you should use the spin to add power.
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2016 2:13:34 GMT
You shouldn't ever spin in order to add power. But if you're going to spin anyway (for some other tactical reason), then you should use the spin to add power. Yeah, that's fair.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 12, 2016 15:39:47 GMT
It is always a bad idea to give your opponent your back. Always.
If you feel uncomfortable with practicing realistic counters to what is essentially a suicidal 'technique,' then you need to change the training circumstances. Whether that means more armor/padding, or agreeing to practice at half speed. What is the goal of this exercise? Are you both just playing around (which is perfectly fine), or are you trying to develop a practical skillset?
You absolutely should be able to close the distance to inside his guard and attack his unprotected back and flank once he has committed his body/inertia to the spin (essentially when he shifts his weight to pivot). It is also perfectly acceptable to practice your footwork outside his range until he tires or dizzies himself enough to press an attack.
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Post by Jason Summer on Apr 16, 2016 21:23:47 GMT
yes, we were just having fun, and i see what you all mean. I need to spar in the right place with the right tools, so that i'm not afraid to do what i need to.
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Post by Jason Summer on Apr 16, 2016 21:28:34 GMT
I think the best thing to do is get a rubber knife and throw it at him, or get a bigger sword next time, and simply parry it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 22:08:10 GMT
you and the people you train with should be able to hit the ground safely wherever you're working. You've got to be able to fall without breaking, twisting, or spraining anything, and preferably not get bruised either.
If he's spinning in place, the simplest thing to do is take a step back and let him twirl to his heart's content.
You can counter attack by either intercepting him early or let his sword clear past you and then walk in and strike. Then it doesn't matter how big your weapon is, you can do it with a pike or a punch, same idea just different distance.
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