|
Post by ambulocetus on Feb 28, 2016 23:04:17 GMT
I've been window shopping for a long time, but I can't seem to find a chinese blade that has niku, fumbari, geometric yokote and a hamachi that is even with the munemachi. Does such a thing exist at a reasonable price? If I have to spend more than $600 I might as well buy a gunto. I'm looking hard at Kris Cutlery, but they don't seem to have fumbari.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Feb 29, 2016 0:02:17 GMT
I've seen a few come from Huawei on eBay, but you generally have to ask for these things specifically, and it's not 100% guaranteed it'll all work out how you want it to.
In general, though, these are the things the typical buyer doesn't even know a katana should have, never mind bothers to look for. There take a slightly greater level of effort to make, so most forges don't bother, since it's not hurting sales.
I think KC's old Filipino swords had better niku and maybe funbari, but I can't remember how the machi lined up.
|
|
|
Post by Kiyoshi on Feb 29, 2016 0:09:17 GMT
Huawei and most other eBay sellers are going to get you about the same stuff but Huawei might understand English better but is still pretty hit or miss on custom order accuracy. Not many places have niku and those that do tend to have less than ideal distal taper (I assume that's what you meant by fumbari since fumbari on a katana that wasn't a tachi isn't all that common). Hanwei supposedly has niku swords but reports are hit and miss and I'd personally want a sword with a better nakago curve so I could get a good remount down the road.
And don't even get me started on yokote. Good blade geometry is what I have posters of in my room instead of normal things. For the sub $600, I think it would be hard to find a high quality sword with what you are looking for but can gamble on an eBay custom if you are up to it.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Feb 29, 2016 0:37:04 GMT
Distal taper and funbari are slightly different, as you know, Kiyoshi; but let's not confuse anybody who might not. Funbari is the "flare" at the base of a sword, rather than the gradual (or sometimes less so) decrease in width along the length of the blade. Katana should have both. Here's a quick example of decent funbari in a non-tachi. In fact, it's a wakizashi (oddly enough, a suriage one, at that): www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2014/14847-3.jpgIt's very slight, but there is a definite "flare" to the base of the blade, apart from the distal taper. Still, not a thing the cheap forges have really bothered to incorporate. Niku is another thing that some offer, but not in the right amounts or fashion. Geometric kissaki are more a suggestion than an actuality, and I don't think I've ever seen a Chinese-made katana with proper machi... Very few with properly-shaped (ie fitting the sori, tapering) nakago, either.
|
|
|
Post by Kiyoshi on Feb 29, 2016 0:46:07 GMT
That is quite the odd case. Cool all the same though. I actually used to think they were the same too until Jussi corrected me, lol.
Unfortunately random is correct. Even if you ask, a lot of places might not give you what you wanted. In the end, it's a gamble on getting something that is "close enough" based on what you paid. :/
|
|
|
Post by ambulocetus on Feb 29, 2016 0:57:29 GMT
Thanks for the replies. Thats what I was afraid of. I recently purchased a JKOO (see my review) and it didn't have any of those 4 things. It seemed like a good deal, but it just wasn't for me and I sold it already. I feel those four things are essential in terms of safety and reliability. The japanese sword has been refined over the centuries, and everything they do has a reason. I think I'm going to get a gunto; the sword show is coming in the spring.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Feb 29, 2016 1:07:19 GMT
I have a Katsujinken from SlavEdge Swordworks (plug etc.) that has slight funbari, but while I can't seem to get the tsuka off (I can't remember if it's epoxied on for safety, or maybe I'm just struggling with the delrin mekugi) I can see via the habaki that the machi are not even. While it has just the slightest bit of niku, enough that a flat card rocks just a wee bit, it's probably not nearly as much as you're looking for and by no means compares to what I've seen on, say, Cheness' stuff or even my James Raw wakizashi. Also, the kissaki is strictly counter-polished.
None of the other swords I have (Hanwei Practical Katana [from before the "classic" line), Dynasty Forge Musha, Musahi Zetsurin and Shirakawa, and some other random Chinese katana I bought at a gun show years ago) have any of the features you want, either. Especially not niku.
I'm not even sure your typical gunto will have any of these features. Mind you, most gunto were machined. A good number were forged in the classical tradition, of modern steels, and oil quenched, but proportionally very few were re-mounted old blades. Most of those were shortened to match regulation, so any funbari they may have had would be lost.
|
|
|
Post by Anankai on Feb 29, 2016 1:12:25 GMT
Yeah, I would want a gunto too, but the reality is that you will have to pay good money for it. Prices they are sold now are just insane, if you want a fairly good condition one. Look at this one for example, it is a Mantetsu Koa-Isshin, which are rarer so more expensive, but the price of it will continue to raise. The blade is beautiful on this one: www.ebay.com/itm/141912844816
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Feb 29, 2016 1:31:27 GMT
Ah, Koa Isshin... That one certainly is pretty.
I'm far more amused than I should be at the Japanese numbering on the spine of the nakago matching up with the "Arabic" numerals on the tsuka, under the fuchi. 五❍五 (go-maru-go), 505 (five-o-five); so much funnier than it should be. I blame fatigue, it's past my bedtime.
|
|
|
Post by Anankai on Feb 29, 2016 1:44:12 GMT
Ah, Koa Isshin... That one certainly is pretty. I'm far more amused than I should be at the Japanese numbering on the spine of the nakago matching up with the "Arabic" numerals on the tsuka, under the fuchi. 五❍五 (go-maru-go), 505 (five-o-five); so much funnier than it should be. I blame fatigue, it's past my bedtime. Yeah that's kind of funny, written with a lead pencil. I could have make it matched just like that myself!
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Feb 29, 2016 1:53:28 GMT
That's the especially good part.
|
|
|
Post by ambulocetus on Feb 29, 2016 2:16:07 GMT
That suriage wak must have been a beast when it was new. And who wouldn't want a koa isshinto. I think if one those chinese smiths used the mantetsu method he would make something special.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Feb 29, 2016 2:20:42 GMT
I think Rob in California (I'm not sure how to tag and am in my phone so I can't be bothered) asked Jacky of Huawei once I'd the forges he sourced from could do that style of lamination. I can't remember whether anything ever came if it, though.
|
|
|
Post by Kiyoshi on Feb 29, 2016 4:33:14 GMT
You do it like a lot of other social media, with an @ before the name. I can't remember what the answer was either so I'll tag him just cuz. Robert in California.
|
|
|
Post by shogun on Feb 29, 2016 5:20:44 GMT
Here's one for your wall kiyoshi
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Feb 29, 2016 5:36:09 GMT
I wanted a Koa Isshin gunto (katana...think it was 26 1/4")...like an idiot, in the 1970's I passed on a nice one for $300usa. I asked Jacky Chen of Huawei if he could make me a Koa Isshin blade (steel rod inside steel pipe...then forged into shape). He said no, but could make me a kobuse blade (softer steel core "meat" with a U-shaped higher carbon steel wrap around the core). I asked for a 5160 spring steel core and a T10 skin for a kobuse. He said that to make the 5160 "springy", can't be done with the DH water quench. But he could do a 1045 or 1060 core with T10 skin to make a Kobuse blade. I decided against it and settled for a DH folded 1085/T10 blade (standard folded steel) with a sughua hamon. Jacky did this for a katana and recently for a waki. I asked for niku for both. The katana did not have any detectable niku. I asked again for niku for the waki blade. The waki blade has about 1/2 mm curve "niku" along the hamon...est the 1/4 inch from edge outwards. On both sides of the blade (straight edge thus can "rock" slightly). Maybe I should have gone with a Huawei kobuse of 1045 core and T10 skin...but that is hindsight. My hindsight is excellent. ohmura-study.net/998.htmlabove is info about the Koa Issin (Isshin) blade. Almost gives one wet dreams!!! RinC
|
|
|
Post by Kiyoshi on Feb 29, 2016 5:53:39 GMT
That's some pretty interesting info RinC. It is a tempting style of sword. I can definitely see the allure of getting one of those. Man, it's such a shame the swords I want are so expensive. ;_;
|
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
|
Post by Mikeeman on Feb 29, 2016 6:00:55 GMT
If you really want a geo kissaki, buy yourself a file hardened over 70 HRC and file it in yourself. Anything past that under $1500 or so is just wishful thinking, IMO. A geo kissaki is relatively easy to file/polish in as long as you understand what it is that makes it geometric.
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Feb 29, 2016 6:08:56 GMT
p.s. My first 3 Huawei's (2 longs and a short) had rock-tight ito wrap on the tsuka. My recent waki tsuka ito was wrapped nicely but less tight. More like "tight" but not "rock hard tight". I could shift the ito with some pressure on this newest waki. Still much tighter than my beater katanas. But I suspect Hauwei has a new tsuka person...maybe a woman (not as strong) who does nice work but lacks the muscle to make the ito REALLY tight (nigh immovable on my older 3 Huawei's). And the mekugi fit is slightly less precise on this new waki. RinC
|
|
|
Post by Robert in California on Feb 29, 2016 6:09:34 GMT
And the hada is a little more "loose"...good and pretty, but a different style.
|
|