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Post by plainsman on Feb 26, 2016 14:34:45 GMT
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Post by Kiyoshi on Feb 27, 2016 0:38:49 GMT
Tachi uchi no kurai, the main set of partner kata. Those guys sure were spirited, I liked how they made the attacks hard a real feeling. It was interesting to see their kiai too, since that isn't a required thing in MJER.
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Post by plainsman on Feb 27, 2016 1:29:35 GMT
Tachi uchi no kurai, the main set of partner kata. Those guys sure were spirited, I liked how they made the attacks hard a real feeling. It was interesting to see their kiai too, since that isn't a required thing in MJER. Ah, cool! I didn't know what it was called. Just knew it wasn't like any other MJER vids I'd seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 13:26:38 GMT
Oh this is nice. Not what I do, but this is a great example of something I was trying to express a while back about 'living kata'. These guys are not just stepping through their routine. It isn't even a matter of attacking "hard" or "mean", just that they are both involved in what they're doing. 2:03 sold it. Definitely keeping a note of this one to review. Thank you.
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Feb 27, 2016 15:26:17 GMT
Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Feb 27, 2016 16:25:12 GMT
Oh this is nice. Not what I do, but this is a great example of something I was trying to express a while back about 'living kata'. These guys are not just stepping through their routine. It isn't even a matter of attacking "hard" or "mean", just that they are both involved in what they're doing. 2:03 sold it. Definitely keeping a note of this one to review. Thank you. Where is that like button when you need it? Sometimes you just want to let someone know that you agree/understand but don't have conversation forwarding ways to say it.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Feb 28, 2016 0:06:55 GMT
Thanks for sharing. We also do tachi uchi no kurai along with kata at my dojo.
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Post by jammer on Feb 29, 2016 21:37:52 GMT
Hi LG we do too, the MJER kenjutsu is quite important to that school, which has become more widely known for its iai.
Their ukenagashi type move from their gedan is a very good move to learn quite early on, I think it is kata 1 or 2.
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 29, 2016 22:37:48 GMT
Neat! What are the gloves they're wearing? I'm still on a quest for decent gloves.
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Post by jammer on Mar 2, 2016 22:22:38 GMT
The gloves are not worn in my dojo, kendo schools do select from various schools of kenjutysu and iai to deepen their sport, so variation is quite common, the gloves may be a facet of the dojo. When we do mjer kenjutsu our stances are different, for instance cutting under the armpit has a much deeper stance, no gloves, but that is from a diferent POV. I suppose it is natural variation and interpretation of the kata.
I should imagine it's quite common for there to be various interpretations of historical European martial arts too, it's the same thing. The japanee martial arts are kept alive by human endeavour and affiliations in the exact same way that, say, German longsword is.
Edit, sorry, they're a type of kendo glove.
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Post by jammer on Mar 2, 2016 22:47:35 GMT
Hey cosmoline, as a fellow if you notice the thrust has a hand on the back of the sword, this is of such interest to me due to the mechanics of the Japanese curved sword, it doesn't penetrate well from a euro style lunge, and so the body mass distribution and evasive is quite different from euro. I have always found this an intriguing difference, the manuscripts from euro seem to show an intrinsically different way of fighting. I love that. Although I am not best placed to decipher the old euro manuscripts, it is apparently there to my eye. I wonder how different this style seems to euro guys?
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 3, 2016 19:09:08 GMT
Yeah around 4:40 or so on the video? In my terms that's a bit like an oberhau from vom tag blocked by a bogen, but the attacker in white goes weak so the blue fighter attempts his own cut which is blocked, but this time the white attacker half swords for leverage to push down on the defense and then thrusts to the gut in half sword. It's similar to sequences in longsword, but the big difference is they're fighting much closer than we do. Their attacks are done mostly in what for us would be close measure, where we'd be going to half sword and ringen automatically. So in that sequence if the white fighter was at longer measure, his half sword overpowering would leave him (and his hands) exposed to an unterhau from nebenhut. Half swording generally only works at close measure where you are "inside the guns" so to speak. If they are at close measure and white goes to half sword, blue would either increase measure and counter attack or go to half sword himself and combine his counter with a wrestling (ringen) move. Then it gets real fun! I do not think he would fade over to nebenhut since that leaves him totally exposed at that short measure. Or if we rewind a bit, at close measure the bogen could be turned into a half swording block, which is a messer response to powerful overhead blows or blows from pole axes. You then pivot to your left which lines the blade up for a jab to their face while keeping their weapon under control. I call it the "oh crap!" defense, since it comes up when something huge is flying at you from above. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms._KK5012_43v.jpgI'm surprised there isn't more half swording with katanas. They are a bit like messer and that broad back of the blade makes a very nice place for your hand. I don't think the slight curve would limit their thrusting ability at all in unarmored combat. And there are all kinds of ringen am schwert techniques using the sword as a brutal grappling lever. Even the unsharpened side of a katana would be an unhappy thing to have prying on your throat. I suspect these were done in the old days, but got removed from the fighting system of Japan as it modernized and tried to make the sword arts less brutal after WW2. But that's just speculation on my part.
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Post by Krelian on Mar 4, 2016 19:03:58 GMT
Kumitachi is an important aspect of MJER, just as it is in many other schools of Japanese swordsmanship. One thing that must be kept in mind is that over time several slightly different style of MJER have developed (I can name five just off the top of my head).
Cosmoline, from the few excellent conversations I've had with my friends that study European swordsmanship I've learned that there are far more similarities than differences with Japanese swordsmanship. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two instances where a technique calls for applying the left hand the the back of the katana for a thrust. Additionally, I can think of a couple instances where the left hand is braced to the back of the katana while applying the edge to the enemy's throat or body. Fascinating stuff and there's probably at least a third more of the curriculum I have yet to be introduced to!
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Post by jammer on Mar 4, 2016 20:15:26 GMT
I think that a good starting point for a difference in stances would be 1.33 and niten ichi ryu. Both use two weapons, and are perhaps similar therefore. Go rin no sho admonished the fighter to NOT lead with their head and feet, whilst the 1.33 seems to show this foot and face forward stance that is completely alien to the other (for practical pourposes) contemporary japanese school.
Tye different stances or attitudes must have offered advantages in their systems.
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Post by Krelian on Mar 4, 2016 23:25:05 GMT
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the gloves... It's hard for me to tell if the darker-colored gloves are the full "mitten" type commonly used in Kendo or if they have an articulated index finger like the light-colored gloves. Those light-colored ones are the type used in Naginata competition. www.e-bogu.com/Naginata-Bogu-and-Equipment-s/146.htm(I also don't think I've previously seen protective gloves used in tachi-uchi before)
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 5, 2016 0:22:48 GMT
Thanks! Those are snazzy. We usually work with light gloves only, but large meetups are increasingly insisting that people wear sufficient hand protection for liability insurance reasons. I've bought many different HEMA gloves but they all tend to be too restrictive.
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Post by jammer on Mar 9, 2016 21:05:28 GMT
The gloves are an anomaly, they're a popular type of glove but not normally associated with either mjer iai or kenjutsu. That said, the kata are only a means to an end, a tool, and the use of the gloves could be part of that process for this dojo. The kenjutsu is amongst the best that I have seen posted here, and any anomalies are easily encompassed within the spectrum of the kata's powers to teach. That is part of the definition good kata.
Edit, just to clarify, kendo is older than the codified version we see today and these gloves are associated with "roots" kendo and also the arts relevant to the kenjutsu/kendo merge. They are only anomalous to mjer as we see it today, a distinct, codified and anachronistic art.
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Post by Derzis on Mar 10, 2016 18:42:36 GMT
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms._KK5012_43v.jpgI'm surprised there isn't more half swording with katanas. They are a bit like messer and that broad back of the blade makes a very nice place for your hand. I don't think the slight curve would limit their thrusting ability at all in unarmored combat. And there are all kinds of ringen am schwert techniques using the sword as a brutal grappling lever. Even the unsharpened side of a katana would be an unhappy thing to have prying on your throat. I suspect these were done in the old days, but got removed from the fighting system of Japan as it modernized and tried to make the sword arts less brutal after WW2. But that's just speculation on my part. The half sword or smacking with the mune (or flat) or stabbing with the sword (flat sword stabbing) are shown in koryu - they exist, but you need 2 ingredients: 1 a Sensei who knows why that particular "useless move I do to get my spirituality up" is actually needed and 2 to practice for quite a few time to get access to these info. Yes, those technics are limited to katas, but with a good understanding you can use them in fight when is needed. But we don't fight these days with swords, so ... If you don't see on YouTube, they don't exist. PS In Ame Agaru you see fighting with katana hitting with mune all day long. And he did some katas kind of similar with some from Muso Shinden Ryu. His noto is Muso Shinden style
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