Scott
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Post by Scott on Feb 13, 2016 14:40:00 GMT
There was never a large British military presence in Australia, and prior to federation each of the colonies did it's own thing.
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Post by victoriansword on Feb 13, 2016 22:06:39 GMT
I disagree that British officers' swords after the P1796 LC were useless. Yes, they were more often lighter than the troopers' swords, but reading first-hand accounts of their use in battle shows them to be serviceable. There was variation in quality, of course, just as there is today. Some swords bent or broke, but other did their job admirably. I recommend any of D.A. Kinsley's books on the subject (primary source accounts of British swords in battle).
If you can find a P1821 LC officer's sword by a quality maker such as Reeves, Wilkinson, Mole, Pillin, or Thurkle I think you will be pleased with it. I find that P1821 LC troopers' swords are more expensive (or at least comparable) than the post-1845 LC officers' swords. It shouldn't be hard to find one for under $600 USD and maybe even as low as $400 for ones that are not in great shape. This is a common pattern and is therefore easy to come by today. Not only were there more LC regiments than HC regiments, but the yeomanry regiments almost always used LC swords. Additionally, the Royal Artillery used the same pattern. RA P1821s can have cavalry length or infantry length blades.
I hope you can find another one that you like!
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Feb 15, 2016 18:07:26 GMT
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Post by Afoo on Feb 15, 2016 21:42:48 GMT
Both look kinda in rough shape :(
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 15, 2016 23:15:25 GMT
Both look kinda in rough shape :( Buy the 1821 Heavy. Clean it and it will be worth 40% more than you're buying it for. Of course once you've cleaned it and held it in hand, you will not want to part with it. This is a near perfect officer's sabre! I need to post pics here. Before I go to bed...
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Post by Afoo on Feb 15, 2016 23:24:49 GMT
True, but it still does not pass the Denner test (ie: can I get something I value equally or more from Denner for the same price). Conversion rate and shipping definitely works against.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 15, 2016 23:31:08 GMT
True, but it still does not pass the Denner test (ie: can I get something I value equally or more from Denner for the same price). Conversion rate and shipping definitely works against. I like Denner. Bought several things from him over the years. Not a particularly large stock at any time. The Easton offering is rare in terms of availability. And it can be conserved.
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Post by bfoo2 on Feb 15, 2016 23:42:36 GMT
True, but it still does not pass the Denner test (ie: can I get something I value equally or more from Denner for the same price). Conversion rate and shipping definitely works against. I like Denner. Bought several things from him over the years. Not a particularly large stock at any time. The Easton offering is rare in terms of availability. And it can be conserved. Yay Denner! Buy from Canada, support our economy, save a beaver!
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Post by Afoo on Feb 16, 2016 1:28:55 GMT
The bigger issue is the condition of my bank account rather than that of the swords available. He does have an 1821 cav blade on an 1897 hilt which looks curious though....
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Post by bfoo2 on Feb 16, 2016 1:41:34 GMT
The bigger issue is the condition of my bank account rather than that of the swords available. He does have an 1821 cav blade on an 1897 hilt which looks curious though.... Been eyeing it for a while. I would if I could find a repro scabbard for it.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 16, 2016 2:26:53 GMT
Few pics. Pardon the low light quality of same: Foreground is the P1821 Heavy Cav Officer saber. Blade is 35x1.12 inches. Middle is the P1821 LC enlisted saber. Blade is 35x1.25 inches and double the mass of the officer. Last is the Balesteros Potuguese enlisted LC saber based on the P1821. 33x1.12 blade. Yes, the low angle horizontal shots do tend to skew the perspective, making the more distant swords look smaller.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 16, 2016 7:56:26 GMT
Your Portugese Enlisted does not have the back strap wings on the grip? I thought the wingless grip to be Officers, always?
But no kidding Dave. I was not interested in the Brits because of the Wilkinson ledger, looking up the owner, blah blah cult, which adds a considerable amount of $$ to sabres that would normally should go for half the price. I smell snobbery. These three however are on the to buy list. Thanks for the pictures.
I looked at the Easton sabres, but they need lots of work. On the hilts mainly. And that is very difficult since one does not have much room to manouver in there. I will however keep an eye on Mr. Eastons offerings. You never know what turns up next.
Man, I want that HC Officers.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 16, 2016 10:07:17 GMT
If getting Spanish info on sword craft is hard, getting Portuguese info is inscrutible. Plain Jane grip wire and lack of blade scripting isn't very offisorial. Don't have an answer.
The 1821 Heavy Officer is a fine looking sword. In spite of empire self luv, I still think the officer blades go overboard on stream lining blades down to something hardly suitable for cutting.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 16, 2016 10:44:22 GMT
The spine of the HC Off. indeed looks quite thin compaired to the Enlisted. With that length that might be a problem. The hilt is the clincher. I am a sucker for curly wurlies.
In other news: the Christus Imperat is in. I missed the delivery yesterday. Need to go and unpack the thing. Cheers.
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Post by Afoo on Feb 17, 2016 4:14:15 GMT
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 17, 2016 4:51:01 GMT
A few pics of what be called the propogation of the Brit 1821 saber blade: Foreground to the back: Brit P1853 saber, Prussian M1852LC, Spanish M1860 dragoon, Swiss 1867 dragoon, Italian 1831/60 dragoon and Sweden M1864 saber. enjoy
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Post by bfoo2 on Feb 17, 2016 4:52:50 GMT
I've been having the same though- however, none of the markings that would unequivocally mark it as Portuguese are there. Maybe an American Civil War import? I understand that these were mostly unmarked, as no country/company wanted to be associated with either side. Early example of black-ops plausible deniability. I swear those stingers aren't ours!
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 17, 2016 5:15:48 GMT
I've been having the same though- however, none of the markings that would unequivocally mark it as Portuguese are there. Maybe an American Civil War import? I understand that these were mostly unmarked, as no country/company wanted to be associated with either side. Early example of black-ops plausible deniability. I swear those stingers aren't ours! :P Hmmm. My AVAST! security program is blocking Denner due to "malware?. (????) Exact figures of how many unmarked saber were shipped to the US is undocumentd, but most of them were shipped in during the first year of the war. US manufacturers in some cases could not make the quotas assigned to them for arms, so they tried to smuggle unmarked foreign swords in to help fill their quotas. Many were intercepted by customs and by order o fthe war departemnt were sent to the Ordnance arsenal for distribution, punishing the US forges for noncompliance.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 17, 2016 6:27:23 GMT
The Denner is an export sabre. Notice the drag, which is different from the standard British pattern, almost exactly like the Reeves Portuguese, the mouth piece and the 1 ring. That is not to say it is British made. It might be a German copy. If Denner sells this one as VG VG+ something is wrong. That scabbard looks like it has trampled upon by a herd of rhinos.
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