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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2008 3:18:52 GMT
I'm gonna start making my own blades soon but i don't know which steel is better to work with the carbon steel or spring steel? someone help plz o yeah and which ones easier to get? ;D
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Post by dand on May 8, 2008 3:49:03 GMT
Hmmm....hard to answer the question since they're kinda the same thing. I would encourage you before you start any sort of sword/knife making to read a bit, get to know a little bit about what you're working with...it'll save you a lot of headaches later. There are some excellent threads here as well as some great books like Jim Hrisoulas's Complete Bladesmith and Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop to get you started.....though a teacher is better still. However, to answer your question....all steel is "carbon steel" since steel is primarily iron and carbon. Unfortunately many lower-end swordmakers tend to throw around the term as a marketing gimick. What you're actually looking for is High Carbon steel....essentially steel that has enough carbon in it to enable it to be heat treated to take a hard edge and still have flexibility. Spring steel is a high carbon steel.....that is often used for things like leaf springs. Depending on where you are in the world steel is referred according to different naming systems. Here in the US we use the AISI nomenclature. In this system the first 2 numbers designate the alloyed metals (for example 51 means it contains chromium). The second set denotes the percentage of carbon. Thus 5160 is an alloy of Iron, chromium and .60% carbon. 5160 is a very common blade steel (it is also the most common material for leaf springs) . Other common blade steels are 6150,1075, 1095 etc. Different types of blades (Japanese, European, swords, knives etc) can take advantage of different elements of each type of steel. So like I said before, it's good to do a little reading, and get to know the subject a little better before jumping in. Oh and welcome to bladesmithing....it's a lot of fun, Dan
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2008 4:07:58 GMT
Hmmm....hard to answer the question since they're kinda the same thing. I would encourage you before you start any sort of sword/knife making to read a bit, get to know a little bit about what you're working with...it'll save you a lot of headaches later. There are some excellent threads here as well as some great books like Jim Hrisoulas's Complete Bladesmith and Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop to get you started.....though a teacher is better still. However, to answer your question....all steel is "carbon steel" since steel is primarily iron and carbon. Unfortunately many lower-end swordmakers tend to throw around the term as a marketing gimick. What you're actually looking for is High Carbon steel....essentially steel that has enough carbon in it to enable it to be heat treated to take a hard edge and still have flexibility. Spring steel is a high carbon steel.....that is often used for things like leaf springs. Depending on where you are in the world steel is referred according to different naming systems. Here in the US we use the AISI nomenclature. In this system the first 2 numbers designate the alloyed metals (for example 51 means it contains chromium). The second set denotes the percentage of carbon. Thus 5160 is an alloy of Iron, chromium and .60% carbon. 5160 is a very common blade steel (it is also the most common material for leaf springs) . Other common blade steels are 6150,1075, 1095 etc. Different types of blades (Japanese, European, swords, knives etc) can take advantage of different elements of each type of steel. So like I said before, it's good to do a little reading, and get to know the subject a little better before jumping in. Oh and welcome to bladesmithing....it's a lot of fun, Dan well thx that helped a lot and yeah i meant high carbon steel my bad I'm still not used to write in English
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 8, 2008 17:37:08 GMT
Hey Leo Feel free to PM if you have any other questions I can help with. Yeah you want high carbon steel, also known as spring steel due to it's ability to be hardened, and then tempered to become flexible, springy, hard and resiliant all at the same time. If looking at numbers you don't really want steel in which the last two digits are under 45. 6145, 1045 etc - that would indicate less than 0.45% carbon. Bottom line is that 45 can be heat treated to make a fine blade. Much less than that however and it wond heat treat into blade stuff.
As Dan said there is a lot of marketing gimmick out there, coupled with a general lack of understanding, which leads people not to know what they are selling. Hell the suspension shop I buy my steel from has been making leaf springs for 40 years, and when I asked them what type of steel it was they had no idea!! ("spring steel" was their only awareness) We looked it up on one of heir invoices, turned out it's 9260 so I'm set.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2008 22:01:23 GMT
Hey Leo Feel free to PM if you have any other questions I can help with. Yeah you want high carbon steel, also known as spring steel due to it's ability to be hardened, and then tempered to become flexible, springy, hard and resiliant all at the same time. If looking at numbers you don't really want steel in which the last two digits are under 45. 6145, 1045 etc - that would indicate less than 0.45% carbon. Bottom line is that 45 can be heat treated to make a fine blade. Much less than that however and it wond heat treat into blade stuff. As Dan said there is a lot of marketing gimmick out there, coupled with a general lack of understanding, which leads people not to know what they are selling. Hell the suspension shop I buy my steel from has been making leaf springs for 40 years, and when I asked them what type of steel it was they had no idea!! ("spring steel" was their only awareness) We looked it up on one of heir invoices, turned out it's 9260 so I'm set. thx again for all your help Brenno i still need to buy the equipment but i wanted to be sure which steel to buy so i can start looking for it here where i live (hopefully they will sell some 9260 or such) if i have any question ill PM thx man
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2008 23:03:30 GMT
i buy my steel from www.admiralsteel.com (thanks agian slavia) im not sure if they will ship outside the US (not sure where you are) but it wouldnt hurt to check them out and send em an e-mail. i didnt see this said, but if you're making large blades like swords and such i'd get a lower carbon steel like 1060-1070 but for knives and other stuff if tthat nature 1095 is harder and will be a little better for knives but that isnt saying either wont work for swords. and brenno i didnt know you were making blades out of 9260!!! thats cool is it expensive?
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 9, 2008 1:30:21 GMT
Nah, it's about $25 for a 1200mm x 70mm x 6mm piece of stock. Less for 50mm. It's gone up quite a bit actually since last September when I started, it was like $15.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2008 2:20:32 GMT
thx darkslyde and brenno another question whats better HR1095 or CRA1095? whats the difference? and why is better spring steel (9260)?? sorry ppl lots of questions here ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2008 2:45:20 GMT
thx darkslyde and brenno another question whats better HR1095 or CRA1095? whats the difference? and why is better spring steel (9260)?? sorry ppl lots of questions here ;D Neither HR or CRA (HR=hot rolled-CRA=cold rolled annealed) is better than the other, if you will be grinding or forging either. The difference is just in the finish, hot rolled has a blue skin, cold rolled annealed has a smoother finish. NEITHER ONE STEEL IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER, it depends on what you want the sword to do. I friggin hate the hype growing around 9260 lately.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2008 2:51:29 GMT
thx darkslyde and brenno another question whats better HR1095 or CRA1095? whats the difference? and why is better spring steel (9260)?? sorry ppl lots of questions here ;D Neither HR or CRA (HR=hot rolled-CRA=cold rolled annealed) is better than the other, if you will be grinding or forging either. The difference is just in the finish, hot rolled has a blue skin, cold rolled annealed has a smoother finish. NEITHER ONE STEEL IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER, it depends on what you want the sword to do. I friggin hate the hype growing around 9260 lately. thx sam and i guess everything started getting hot around the 9260 for cheness and all the tenchi kaze and o katana stuff
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2008 3:18:04 GMT
I'm not trying to put anyone down with this statement but i guess the hype is thanks to Paul his tests performed with those swords kinda got everyone a little giddy... but id like to think there is a little truth to the hype and 9260 is some tough stuff. and Leo maybe u have already seen these sites but these are where i get my information and it seems to be a pretty good source www.dfoggknives.com/hardening.htm for the heat treat www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm for everything else i would strongly recommend you read both of these thoroughly before making your first knife as they have alot of very important information.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on May 9, 2008 21:05:24 GMT
I'm not sure but there might just possibly be a thread stickied around here somewhere that says quite a bit about steel...
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2008 22:17:58 GMT
I'm not sure but there might just possibly be a thread stickied around here somewhere that says quite a bit about steel... HMM YEAH I THINK THAT HAPPENS TO BE STICKIED SOMEWHERE?!!?!?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2008 15:43:10 GMT
I'm not trying to put anyone down with this statement but i guess the hype is thanks to Paul his tests performed with those swords kinda got everyone a little giddy... but id like to think there is a little truth to the hype and 9260 is some tough stuff. and Leo maybe u have already seen these sites but these are where i get my information and it seems to be a pretty good source www.dfoggknives.com/hardening.htm for the heat treat www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm for everything else i would strongly recommend you read both of these thoroughly before making your first knife as they have alot of very important information. thanks darkslyde ill read them as soon as i have some time work has beein g a b**** lately thx again for all the help ppl
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on May 13, 2008 20:26:00 GMT
I'm not trying to put anyone down with this statement but i guess the hype is thanks to Paul his tests performed with those swords kinda got everyone a little giddy... but id like to think there is a little truth to the hype and 9260 is some tough stuff. and Leo maybe u have already seen these sites but these are where i get my information and it seems to be a pretty good source www.dfoggknives.com/hardening.htm for the heat treat www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm for everything else i would strongly recommend you read both of these thoroughly before making your first knife as they have alot of very important information. These are good resources, but better yet, read a nice book. There are many good ones. Just search the word "bladesmith" on Amazon.com and you'll turn up hundreds.
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