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Post by snap on Aug 27, 2015 0:22:58 GMT
Got a sword from KoA with a deformity at the tip I noticed immediately. I sent a photo of it to Kult and got this response:
I sent your picture to Dark Sword to see what they think. We are just a retailer, so have to default to the manufacturers for these types of issues. Unfortunately, Darksword is unable to exchange the product for such a minor issue. In deed this type of variance is rather common in hand forged items like this, so it is be somewhat expected. I’ve pasted their reply below. Despite their reply, we could still try and exchange it for you if you cover the shipping costs involved. However, minor issues like this will be rather common. We would try to get you the best one available, but can not guarantee perfection. Please let me know if you are interested in doing that. I’m sorry I do not have any better options for you.
Thank you for your email,
These swords are hand forged so slight defects like this one are to be expected. I'm sorry but I cannot replace this.
Hopefully, your customer will understand.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Thank you,
Kult said they take responsibility for defects. Now they're saying this particular defect is not significant enough. I noticed it immediately (sorry cannot upload photos to SBG forum no matter what I try).
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Aug 27, 2015 0:57:06 GMT
I can't comment unless I see the photos. Perhaps it's a minor defect you can fix yourself or not...
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Post by MOK on Aug 27, 2015 1:14:20 GMT
Sounds entirely reasonable on KOA's part, to me, unless the flaw is a seriously compromising one; IMO this is really the best they can do if they want to run a profitable business.
I mean, they already promised to spend extra work time - meaning, in the end, their own money! - on handling the return and replacement and even picking out the best one they have on hand for you. Expecting them to pay for shipping on top of that would actually be quite punishing, and as a company policy would lead to significantly increased overhead: one major thing here is that having to pay the shipping costs stops unscrupulous people from dicking them around with frivolous returns.
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Post by Croccifixio on Aug 27, 2015 1:44:53 GMT
Really depends on the defect
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Aug 27, 2015 2:57:04 GMT
As others have said, it depends on the nature of the deformity. Does it affect the sword's performance at all? Or is it merely cosmetic? Personally, if a sword came to me with a defect that affected its performance (not that I'd really notice, not being in a position to test my swords), I'd alert the vendor I bought it from, letting 'em know a lemon slipped through the cracks, and get started on an exchange. If it came with something that was a simple cosmetic defect, I don't think I'd bother, depending on how much I paid for the sword; any sword that is hand forged is bound to differ slightly from its brethren.
Also, consider an image hosting site such as Photobucket (which is free to use); upload your images to it and just paste the image link into your reply. Without images, nobody can really judge the nature of this deformity you noticed in your sword, so we can't make a fully informed judgement.
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Post by ineffableone on Aug 27, 2015 3:02:37 GMT
As others have said, without seeing the defect it is hard to say if KOA and Dark Sword are being reasonable, or if they are neglecting a serious complaint. From the tone of the message from both it seems what your calling a deformity, they don't see see as too big an issue and merely cosmetic. Yet KOA is willing to try and work with you as much as they can to get you a more suitable replacement. Though at the cost of you paying shipping. Which again seems to point to more a cosmetic issue rather than a true functional problem.
Sorry, but without a picture to see the problem your unhappy with it is hard to say more.
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Post by Afoo on Aug 27, 2015 3:50:01 GMT
I had a similar thing with DSA. Bought a warhammer from them through the SBG store. The shaft was seriously warped (major issue, not cosmetic in the slightest). Got a refund, but had to pay shipping (SBG store offered to cover it, but I turned them down since its not fair for them to loose money on someone else's fault)
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 27, 2015 5:23:44 GMT
KOA has always had the best cs and guarantees around. DSA has also alway had a stand up warranty to replace defective swords. If they are both still up to their norms for cs then I'd say the issue has to be overall common and minor. Something acceptable if not desired.
Now that said, Koa has commented recently that they have some suppliers who just have a certain standard of product, and if Koa had to replace/refund product that was within that standard even though consumers didn't like it, it'd be just to many returns to be able to deal with. Don't know if DSA stuff fits this catagory.
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Post by RicWilly on Aug 27, 2015 5:49:51 GMT
KOA has a 45 day return policy for any reason as long as the sword is in the same condition you received it.
You just have to eat the shipping.
I've done it more than once for less reason than you have.
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Post by LemuelTheLemur on Aug 27, 2015 6:53:28 GMT
Here's how to upload pics on SBG:  |
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Aug 29, 2015 2:55:49 GMT
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Aug 29, 2015 7:18:26 GMT
KoA have a scratch and dent section as well as a damaged blow out section. They also note in their terms and conditions that small imperfections are to be expected. Perhaps they didn't think the deformity of the tip was all that bad, or maybe it slipped though the cracks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 18:08:47 GMT
You say you cannot upload it to sbg. Go ahead and send the photo to me in email. gcleeton@gmail.com. I'll get the photo up for you. You are not very descriptive of what you see as a problem.
Quite honestly, Kult of Athena used to have a rather scathing remark in their disclaimer link discussing this very issue. Basically stating expectations are often greater than the reality of how blades are finished and beginning collectors should learn from that.
I noticed and ignored for a decade, sloppy work from Arms&Armor. I ignored it for so long because the faults were unseen in actual use. It was only after many years of a friend chiding me that I took it apart and did some file work to clean up the guard blade opening and reset the grip straight. Total time, an hour of my time. If the grind of the point of your sword is fairly mild and fixable, I am of the opinion is either live with it or fix it yourself.
Darksword Armory is on my own hate list but in terms of practicality, if KOA says it's minor, it probably is.
Opinions will vary. We had a customer referred to us by our parts supplier for Volvo brake work. We replaced only calipers, at her request and told her either her rear drum cylinders or master cylinder would go next. Two weeks later she storms into our shop and claimed sabotage. After offering to do more work (as expected, the master failed and the rears would go atfer that) and getting nothing but more flak, my boss basically told her to go f herself. An hour later, the parts store owner came to visit and related the women then ranted at him that we had told her to go f herself. The parts shop owner had replied to her with "well if they told you to go f yourself, maybe you should". True story, Foreign Autos Parts and Michael's Motor Service Cambridge Ma 1978
I am not saying you are in the wrong. Pictures and a better description might sway opinion but a minor issue easily remedied with a little work, or of little real consequence might be better regarded as character instead of a fault. A sword uniquely yours.
I am not siding with either vendor or maker in this matter, simply offering opinion and options.
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Post by svante on Aug 29, 2015 19:07:09 GMT
Oh look words of wisdom, read and apply. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2015 19:53:57 GMT
I have no DSA products but understand there have been quality issues so I stay away from them although other people have bought and have been satisfied with DSA. With no picture I cannot judge. With no more to support your complaint than offered I will stand by KoA’s and DSA’s judgement. If you cannot live with the sword pay the shipping and return it.
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Post by subquark on Sept 9, 2015 18:34:54 GMT
Depends on what kind of retailer KoA wants to be. L.L. Bean takes anything back simply if it no longer brings 100% satisfaction. They built a business with annual revenues in excess of $1.5 billion and deal with 1,000s of manufacturers. And they started with one product - hunting boots. Treat the customer right and you will have a profitable business. My two cents anyway.
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Post by nddave on Sept 11, 2015 16:31:39 GMT
Depends on what kind of retailer KoA wants to be. L.L. Bean takes anything back simply if it no longer brings 100% satisfaction. They built a business with annual revenues in excess of $1.5 billion and deal with 1,000s of manufacturers. And they started with one product - hunting boots. Treat the customer right and you will have a profitable business. My two cents anyway. I think it really depends on the market the vendor is in. Swords are still very niche, something I think we tend to forget here because our primary focus is on swords and sales of swords. Sure KoA could return everything but the issue is would that hurt or benefit them in the long run? The sword industry is expensive to operate and expensive to sell. When you have a niche market with a small group of buyers worldwide as well as manufactures it's hard to justify many of the customer liberties that are given in the larger markets. Most people when the go to say KoA are buying one item rather than 2-100 items like they would with another market. Most of the time those purchases are not so frequent either. So that means that KoA has less to work with when it comes to returns and refunds. They could easily refund themselves out of business if the refunds dig into profits. The fact that KoA does offer the polices and customer satisfaction guarantees they do speak loud in a industry know for it's shady maneuvers and slick sales pitches. That's why KoA has been #1 to so many here for over five years. They really are the best priced and the best to deal with regarding customer service and product knowledge. Since OP has pretty much obviously dropped his argument he either realized he was over reacting or got the issue resolved. That is if this was a real situation anyway, no pics no proof and to simply drop off the board after asking for pics kinda hints to that assumption. Either way sometimes as a consumer or customer you have to take a step back and look at the situation in another light. Being from both ends of the field I can testify that respecting a companies policies and procedures all the while keeping your expectations in check goes a long way. Plus this is the Sword Buyers Guide! If there's questions or expectations that could be answered or put in check it would be here with our thousands of topics and reviews on swords, makers, vendors and more. If he had done his research he wouldn't have been shocked by the usual Q&C of DSA and would've known what to expect. Nobody here should be buying DSA and expecting Albion quality, if they are then they're not reading the right threads and if they're not then it's probably because they did read the right threads and can have a more reasonable expectation of their purchases. |
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