Fabri Armorum Lange Messer sharp and Lange Messer Slim blunt
Aug 15, 2015 4:59:55 GMT
Post by StevenJ on Aug 15, 2015 4:59:55 GMT
So I have been infatuated with the idea of getting a sharp messer lately as I had owned the Darksword Messer JSarge designed as apart of the design competition a few years back. That one was a good weapon but I didn't care for the recurved handle and the shell was only brass brazed onto the guard, not likely to survive a real combat scenario.
So fast forward a few years and I have got not one but two messers from Fabri Armorum. I originally planned on one, being their Slim line variant but I was too in love with the way the Slim line handled as a blunt to sharpen it. So I decided to keep it as a stage weapon and order one of the wide Fabri Lange Messers. Both long knives were purchased from www.outfit4events.com
This is the wide one
www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/2903-langmesser-de-luxe/
Overall length approx. 73 cm
28.7 inches
Blade length approx. 57 cm
22.4 inches
Guard length approx. 16.5 cm
6.5 inches
Crossguard width approx. 20cm 7.8 inches
On the guard is one upright piece in the centre
Weight approx. 1,30 kg 2 pounds 14 ounces
Point of balance: 3 inches roughly stock
blade is about 3.8mm stock, tapers lightly to the tip
This is the slim line one
www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/9392-langmesser-slim/
Overall length approx. 74 cm
29.1 inches
Blade length approx. 57 cm
22.4 inches
Guard length approx. 16.5 cm
6.5 inches
Width of guard approx. 19 cm 7.5 inches
Point of balance approx. 6.5 cm
2.5 inches
On the guard is one upright piece in the center
Weight approx. 1250 g 2 pounds 12 ounces
blade is about 3.8mm stock, tapers lightly to the tip
imgur.com/a/8t5Mm this is the link to the entire photo album for this review.
The stats on the page seem to be correct for the blunt versions. You can order both sharp and I do recommend outfit4events as a vendor with one point of contention. Their packing kind of sucks. They do plastic wrap and cardboard wrap their swords but they seem to have an allergic reaction to putting ANY packing material into the actual box. Nothing got damaged in shipment thankfully and they shipped them via Fedex when they said they would. The Slim line arrived with the Fabri Italian Cut and Thrust sword I reviewed here a few weeks ago.
Some notes on construction and this applies to both weapons. The pommels are brazed with brass solder per Fabri's preferred method of construction. Traditional German lange messers vary here as some have pommel riveted to the tang through the side just like the wood slabs. Some are peened with the tang pressing through the back of the tang. On both the pommel is much longer than the grip where as on most historic examples the wood grip is very long with a tiny pommel cap. Though I have seen on some two handed German messers where they do have very large pommels, some as large as the one on these Fabri examples. There are two rivets holding the wood slabs to the tang with the cross guard being press fit.
Unlike historical German lange messers, the nagel is one piece of thick steel integrated into the cross guard. Historically the nagel is riveted on with a steel rivet through the cross guard and tang of the sword. While it is not historical, I actually prefer the Fabri nagel as it is very thick on both models and clearly apart of the cross guard rather than being electrically welded or brazed on. You would need an angle grinder to cut it off, that nagel is stage combat rated. I do plan on drilling a hole through the pommel and tang on both lange messers to insert a steel rivet through them in time. Both blades have almost no flex in them at all. Also the guard on both weapons are near perfectly milled and have an exceptionally tight finish.
(Historic German Lange Messer for reference)
www.higgins-collection.org/artifacts/2036.3
So begins the story of a whack job who sharpened a 3 to 3.5 mm blunt edge stage sword.
(Before)
(After)
And yes as the sub title does imply I did sharpen the standard width version. It took two 4 by 36 50 grit belts, one sanding stone, an angle grinder with a wire wheel brush, some sand paper, a spray bottle of water to keep the blade from getting too hot during grinding, and a lot of hard work. Total time to sharpen was oh three hours or so roughly. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and by spraying water on the blade I kept it from getting too hot. The only part of the blade that turned color is the tip as to be expected, other than that nothing else showed signs of serious discoloring. Though the water did leave a lot of odd stains that were quickly removed with the angle grinder with wire brush attachment. I am reviewing it as a sharp and as a note, you can order either of these messers sharpened from the factory.
And here are the results!
Before the standard width messer was very very heavy in the hand and a bit of a wrist breaker. It's still fairly heavy in the hand after being sharpened but it isn't a total wrist breaker. It still is very sword axe like in it's maneuvering but can transition well from guard to guard. The blade is effectively machette sharp, it really in profile reminds me of the Conyer's falchion and is something an orc would be proud of! I don't have any videos of any of them in handling yet unfortunately. The standard width messer I wouldn't recommend as a stage weapon as it is a bit hefty and too blade heavy but as a sharp it is a superb weapon despite being a bit slow. It is also a superb tool for doing brush work as I have used it already in testing to clear a lot of over growth on my patio and around my home. It has sliced through palm tree leaves, whole bunch of other kinds of tree branches, etc without much issue. This really is the ideal survival brush machete if you ever had a need for one. It's got a strong thick spine without being too over built, the edge I put on it can take a ton of abuse, and it keeps on going. The only thing to rattle were the wood slaps. The steel rivets holding the wood slabs together required a little extra peening and the problem vanished. There is also something a bit mystical about the standard width messer that I have not seen quite as pronounced on any other sword whether it's for stage or sharp. The blade literately rings like a bell whenever it strikes against any object that provides fair resistance and it is audible, very audible, it sounds like a church bell! It was this way when it was blunt and retained the bell SCHWIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGGG even after sharpening :D ! Pretty much the entire blade is the sweet spot except the very tip.
With that said the slim messer is the exact opposite. Though it would be great as a sharp if the pommel wasn't too overly huge, I think it would have too much counterbalance, it makes a superb blunt trainer. It is lightening fast in the hand and transitions well from guard to guard. I think it still handles better than the other wider messer even after it was sharpened. Part of this is that the point of balance is about 3/4 of an inch closer to the guard. I really don't think there is much if any weight difference between the two after the wider messer was sharpened. Like the standard width messer, the slim messer will most likely need to have the rivets going through the wood slabs peened a bit more as I do believe they are a tad loose also. Other than that on both the length of the tang is a bit short compared to the gigantic pommel. Though I do believe on both the tang is long enough and wide enough for use in stage or as a sharp. Over all I'm happy with both purchases and can recommend both versions being the slim and the standard width. I would suggest the slim if you want a stage combat weapon and the standard width if you want a sharp version. I paid about $210 shipped to the US for each in their blunt version individually from outfit4events.
fit and finish 4 out of 5
handling 4 out of 5 on slim 3 out of 5 on standard width
value for money 4.5 out of 5
There really aren't that many messers at this price point. I do believe Wulflund sells a few messers fairly close to the Fabri Armorum price point. Granted these weapons are pretty much 3.8 stock with some minimal taper down to about 3.3 or so, they still handle well. For the price they are great backyard cutters/ stage weapons that should last a life time. I do plan on doing a video of at least the sharp one some time in the near future. Oh one last point I forgot to mention, no wood stain was used on the wide messer's wood grip. The wood actually darkened on its own from absorbing all the metal dust during the sharpening process. I tried to wet the wood slabs to get it out but I'm happy with the result.
So fast forward a few years and I have got not one but two messers from Fabri Armorum. I originally planned on one, being their Slim line variant but I was too in love with the way the Slim line handled as a blunt to sharpen it. So I decided to keep it as a stage weapon and order one of the wide Fabri Lange Messers. Both long knives were purchased from www.outfit4events.com
This is the wide one
www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/2903-langmesser-de-luxe/
Overall length approx. 73 cm
28.7 inches
Blade length approx. 57 cm
22.4 inches
Guard length approx. 16.5 cm
6.5 inches
Crossguard width approx. 20cm 7.8 inches
On the guard is one upright piece in the centre
Weight approx. 1,30 kg 2 pounds 14 ounces
Point of balance: 3 inches roughly stock
blade is about 3.8mm stock, tapers lightly to the tip
This is the slim line one
www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/9392-langmesser-slim/
Overall length approx. 74 cm
29.1 inches
Blade length approx. 57 cm
22.4 inches
Guard length approx. 16.5 cm
6.5 inches
Width of guard approx. 19 cm 7.5 inches
Point of balance approx. 6.5 cm
2.5 inches
On the guard is one upright piece in the center
Weight approx. 1250 g 2 pounds 12 ounces
blade is about 3.8mm stock, tapers lightly to the tip
imgur.com/a/8t5Mm this is the link to the entire photo album for this review.
The stats on the page seem to be correct for the blunt versions. You can order both sharp and I do recommend outfit4events as a vendor with one point of contention. Their packing kind of sucks. They do plastic wrap and cardboard wrap their swords but they seem to have an allergic reaction to putting ANY packing material into the actual box. Nothing got damaged in shipment thankfully and they shipped them via Fedex when they said they would. The Slim line arrived with the Fabri Italian Cut and Thrust sword I reviewed here a few weeks ago.
Some notes on construction and this applies to both weapons. The pommels are brazed with brass solder per Fabri's preferred method of construction. Traditional German lange messers vary here as some have pommel riveted to the tang through the side just like the wood slabs. Some are peened with the tang pressing through the back of the tang. On both the pommel is much longer than the grip where as on most historic examples the wood grip is very long with a tiny pommel cap. Though I have seen on some two handed German messers where they do have very large pommels, some as large as the one on these Fabri examples. There are two rivets holding the wood slabs to the tang with the cross guard being press fit.
Unlike historical German lange messers, the nagel is one piece of thick steel integrated into the cross guard. Historically the nagel is riveted on with a steel rivet through the cross guard and tang of the sword. While it is not historical, I actually prefer the Fabri nagel as it is very thick on both models and clearly apart of the cross guard rather than being electrically welded or brazed on. You would need an angle grinder to cut it off, that nagel is stage combat rated. I do plan on drilling a hole through the pommel and tang on both lange messers to insert a steel rivet through them in time. Both blades have almost no flex in them at all. Also the guard on both weapons are near perfectly milled and have an exceptionally tight finish.
(Historic German Lange Messer for reference)
www.higgins-collection.org/artifacts/2036.3
So begins the story of a whack job who sharpened a 3 to 3.5 mm blunt edge stage sword.
(Before)
(After)
And yes as the sub title does imply I did sharpen the standard width version. It took two 4 by 36 50 grit belts, one sanding stone, an angle grinder with a wire wheel brush, some sand paper, a spray bottle of water to keep the blade from getting too hot during grinding, and a lot of hard work. Total time to sharpen was oh three hours or so roughly. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and by spraying water on the blade I kept it from getting too hot. The only part of the blade that turned color is the tip as to be expected, other than that nothing else showed signs of serious discoloring. Though the water did leave a lot of odd stains that were quickly removed with the angle grinder with wire brush attachment. I am reviewing it as a sharp and as a note, you can order either of these messers sharpened from the factory.
And here are the results!
Before the standard width messer was very very heavy in the hand and a bit of a wrist breaker. It's still fairly heavy in the hand after being sharpened but it isn't a total wrist breaker. It still is very sword axe like in it's maneuvering but can transition well from guard to guard. The blade is effectively machette sharp, it really in profile reminds me of the Conyer's falchion and is something an orc would be proud of! I don't have any videos of any of them in handling yet unfortunately. The standard width messer I wouldn't recommend as a stage weapon as it is a bit hefty and too blade heavy but as a sharp it is a superb weapon despite being a bit slow. It is also a superb tool for doing brush work as I have used it already in testing to clear a lot of over growth on my patio and around my home. It has sliced through palm tree leaves, whole bunch of other kinds of tree branches, etc without much issue. This really is the ideal survival brush machete if you ever had a need for one. It's got a strong thick spine without being too over built, the edge I put on it can take a ton of abuse, and it keeps on going. The only thing to rattle were the wood slaps. The steel rivets holding the wood slabs together required a little extra peening and the problem vanished. There is also something a bit mystical about the standard width messer that I have not seen quite as pronounced on any other sword whether it's for stage or sharp. The blade literately rings like a bell whenever it strikes against any object that provides fair resistance and it is audible, very audible, it sounds like a church bell! It was this way when it was blunt and retained the bell SCHWIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGGG even after sharpening :D ! Pretty much the entire blade is the sweet spot except the very tip.
With that said the slim messer is the exact opposite. Though it would be great as a sharp if the pommel wasn't too overly huge, I think it would have too much counterbalance, it makes a superb blunt trainer. It is lightening fast in the hand and transitions well from guard to guard. I think it still handles better than the other wider messer even after it was sharpened. Part of this is that the point of balance is about 3/4 of an inch closer to the guard. I really don't think there is much if any weight difference between the two after the wider messer was sharpened. Like the standard width messer, the slim messer will most likely need to have the rivets going through the wood slabs peened a bit more as I do believe they are a tad loose also. Other than that on both the length of the tang is a bit short compared to the gigantic pommel. Though I do believe on both the tang is long enough and wide enough for use in stage or as a sharp. Over all I'm happy with both purchases and can recommend both versions being the slim and the standard width. I would suggest the slim if you want a stage combat weapon and the standard width if you want a sharp version. I paid about $210 shipped to the US for each in their blunt version individually from outfit4events.
fit and finish 4 out of 5
handling 4 out of 5 on slim 3 out of 5 on standard width
value for money 4.5 out of 5
There really aren't that many messers at this price point. I do believe Wulflund sells a few messers fairly close to the Fabri Armorum price point. Granted these weapons are pretty much 3.8 stock with some minimal taper down to about 3.3 or so, they still handle well. For the price they are great backyard cutters/ stage weapons that should last a life time. I do plan on doing a video of at least the sharp one some time in the near future. Oh one last point I forgot to mention, no wood stain was used on the wide messer's wood grip. The wood actually darkened on its own from absorbing all the metal dust during the sharpening process. I tried to wet the wood slabs to get it out but I'm happy with the result.