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Post by Ulrich on Aug 16, 2015 18:34:29 GMT
I'm 41 and I like to train. Okay, not for the real use against civilists or armored warriors, but to be with the blade. To feel it as a part of my body, to strenghten self-discipline. I love steel, especially in its sharp form. And I'm used to it since I was able to walk. The long blade is more fun than the short. So I need swords in all shapes xD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 0:56:26 GMT
It's quite amusing reading how people gradually come to the realisation as they age that they can't go full on in training, parts of the body wear out, and that martial arts practices that rely on physical strength become less appealing and the body takes longer to recover. As we get older we eventually come to the realisation...
When everyone's young they think (or live like)they're indestructible and immortal, there is no sense of time in respect to what one expects the body to maintain doing throughout life.
Wisdom comes with age, and the oldest civilisations hold some of the greatest wisdom. The Chinese worked out the solution many centuries ago - the internal arts. Systems such as Tai Chi Chuan, Bagua zhang, Xingyi. These systems use a lot of weapons, but just like in Silver's WMA philosophy of fighting hard with soft, they don't try to oppose force with greater force, strength with greater strength, trying to do that as you get older is foolish, and your effectiveness of your art essentially diminishes with age when you work like that.
These internal arts harmonize, redirect or avoid the force, using it against the opponent. Strength is not required because the whole body generates the power progressively, from legs through to waist then through shoulders and arms, much like a professional boxer's knockout punch. This approach generates more than enough power and these martial arts are designed to work with this method of power generation which will work well enough even with empty hand fighting into old age. Mind you, these systems use weapons, especially swords, and these systems were used to train imperial guards at times, so there is a true combat lineage and a direct combat application of all forms practised, some schools don't teach the martial applications of the techniques though.
Even very heavy polearms are driven using whole body movements, and elderly men in their eighties or nineties can still wield these effectively. It's not about arm or shoulder strength.
The whole issue comes down to the strength of youthfulness versus the experience of age in the Chinese martial arts, growing old and having pains here and there shouldn't mean you have to stop training, or not start a new martial art for that matter. There are plenty of very physical empty hand and weapons systems for young people with the strength and stamina for it. The public spaces in China in the mornings are full of old people practising tai chi, many practising sword forms.
Agree with other posters, some people are more interested in the history or simply collecting, and don't feel compelled to train, or learn how to use what they collect. They get their personal meaning and satisfaction from collecting alone.
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Post by AlvaroWang on Aug 17, 2015 4:54:23 GMT
I gotta say that this is one of the most interesting topics I came across.
I myself am in the other side of the spectra, I practice kung fu, but the closer I got to a real sword was a Dao which seems to be closer to what a real sword should be like, but it is a cheaper unsharpened steel fit only for form training.
I can completely understand the people who actually trained in one point in life but the body was not the same or the schedule was starting to get really tight, my shoulders and knees hurt by the simple act of living, I don't even need to do any type of exercise or practice and they just go "weeee, it's been a long time since you didn't feel any pain, let's fix that", but I try to overcome it by practicing very slowly or/and by myself.
Very soon I shall be practicing AND collecting!
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Post by Cosmoline on Aug 17, 2015 7:08:33 GMT
Injury and aging issues are more of an issue than I would have expected.
That's a really excellent point. I suspect that most in the west, esp. in the US, associate practicing with swords with competitions. And that is still true even for historical swordplay in a lot of groups. It's another argument against sportification trends in HEMA.
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Post by Billybob on Sept 3, 2015 4:23:14 GMT
Nobody close by to teach. I cut, but lack the full JSA experience and training.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Nov 1, 2015 7:56:53 GMT
I'm sort of rural, so I just haven't connected with any training partners. I do solo practice and cutting, but that's just not the same.
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Post by demonskull on Nov 1, 2015 13:22:52 GMT
In our local WMA groups we have periodic discussions about how to recruit new members, and the difficulties of getting people to stick to training for more than a few sessions. There are the usual pools of folks from SCA or LARPing who have some interest in what we do. Sometimes a lot of interest. But one thing that strikes me is that the folks who have swords or have an interest in swords seem to greatly outnumber those of us who do something with them or with sword-like-objects. It seems to have some reflection on these forums, where most of the activity involves swords but not so much sword training. So, if this is an accurate observation, I'm wondering if there are owners who don't train who might have specific reasons for not training. With an eye toward perhaps making ourselves more accessible and interesting. A great many people have got into boxing and martial arts by starting through interest in fitness. If trying to promote the art, try marketing training videos not on swordplay but on fitness techniques based around training exercises and focusing on muscle groups used in sword fighting. You'd need several practitioners and at least one Fitness Instructor and a Occupational Therapist. Start with stretching and work to build muscle groups. From there go to stances and beginning grapples without weapons. Then move to weapons with the narrations focusing on early defense techniques. Add in a little history on Training by Knights and Samurai, just a little to pique interest. People seem to love learning new defense techniques while achieving the desired goal of fitness. You can then promote further study of early weapon techniques/styles and where to find information say on a existing website or a new one of your own design. |
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Post by Student of Sword on Nov 1, 2015 14:15:23 GMT
I've been collecting swords for well over thirty years and have trained at various periods in the past. I also fenced (saber) for over fifteen years and was an Olympic hopeful at one point. I don't train now for various reasons, mainly the lack of a good organised training group in my location. There's also the factors of time and age. I have other things that require my time and energy. Also, at nearly fifty years old and after nearly a quarter century of cop work, I have several old injuries that talk to me when I get out of bed, I don't know if I need any more. When I have trained in the past, it wasn't in anticipation of using the sword as a weapon. Frankly, I think anyone who actually trains with the notion of really using a sword in the 21st century probably has a few screws loose. Consequently, I've never been concerned about issues of actual use and practicality. For me it's always been about the history behind it and furthering my knowledge base on one of my favorite topics. I agree that people who "actually trains with the notion of really using a sword in the 21st century probably has a few screws loose." I train swordsmanship to have a sense of how swords were used historically. It's more akin to experimental archaeology. Training give me a sense of why the swords were shaped or designed the way they were. |
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 3, 2015 2:54:30 GMT
Since my post here I've upped the ante on my training, and while I think I've improved, I've also gotten a few more injuries. I can see how that aspect of it could dissuade some from trying out weapon-based arts. Injuries are just a bit more damaging than those expected in training for empty-hand combat arts.
In any case, I hope the HEMA people or at least those interested in HEMA watched the Back to the Source documentary. Has some really good points on basically everything mentioned here (sportification vs historicity, fitness, practicality, etc). Makes me want to hurry up with my career and work on a master's degree in the US or EU just so I can train.
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Post by lygon on Mar 4, 2016 6:13:44 GMT
I only have one real sword for "home defense" (and a ton of bokken), but I'd sorta be scared to have it without at least a little bit of training/practice.
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Post by redhead on Apr 6, 2016 0:27:00 GMT
I'm way too old for training. I'm weening off firearms and have trained with them for many years. Just bought several swords in the last 4-6 months and what I like to do is sharpen them. Only one is a $300 sword as all the rest are less than $80 or so. I don't think I will use them for cutting although I will try at some point. One is a training blade and is dull as a butter knife. I'll let my grandchildren learn on that one before I give them a sharp one.
Ok back for a nap.
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Post by dougman on Apr 6, 2016 2:55:08 GMT
I had no idea swordplay was something that people still did until I joined the forums here. I knew that people did kendo and tai-chi (I've had some friends who were really good at kendo), but for me, that was the extent of it.
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Post by Cosmoline on Apr 8, 2016 0:35:43 GMT
It's getting more and more popular, and better.
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Post by johnbu on May 17, 2016 20:38:21 GMT
There is a sword class at my dojo, but I'd be 45-50 years older than all the children in the class.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 17, 2016 22:31:30 GMT
The desire is there, a school isn’t. I studied stick fighting, amongst other arts, and can see some relationship. I have no desire to invest in sport fencing but to learn historical combat would help me understand history better. It would make me feel better to have a better understanding of my swords. At 76 I have no illusions of entering a full blown HEMA competition, but this is not needed for better understanding nor to pass a few hours weekly in a class with comradely .
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Post by darth on May 27, 2016 17:58:56 GMT
Although walking down the street with a sword on your side is not practical and the chance of ever being in a sword on sword encounter is pretty slim to almost say it's imposable, but they do make great weapons in plain view in your home that to many people are just decorations but give you a tool incase home invaders come in and your a bit to far from a firearm. Sword work also translates to canes, sticks, bat, umbrellas and other implements you could find yourself using against an attacker or taking from an attacker. It also does make empty hand better in a lot of ways.
Some people don't won't have a firearm, some people can;t because of local laws. If my sons went to college where he could not have a firearm in his apartment, he'd have a sword or two with him when he leave my house to go off to school.
But as a guitarist, there are many people who have guitar collections that make me drewl and kind of envious they have such a machine of sound, yet do nothing with them, but they paid for it and their preservation very well might enable some of those instruments to make their way into talented hand, who will one day let theose caged birds sing. Sword collectors who don't bang them together are preserving some great blades for the next generation and so many of them have the history of the things down, so they keep that going too.
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Post by TikritTourist on Jun 4, 2016 12:57:16 GMT
I take an occasional private lesson with a local Sensei who specializes in AikiBudo arts, and he cautions me that his instruction is NOT related to any lineage of sword schools.
I mostly do Kata with production katana, and use it as physical and mental exercise, as well as a sort of "combat meditation"
Those who train in schools would scoff at my "technique" but I take it for what it is: a form of focused physical/mental exercise (with really beautiful tools and rituals)
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gandermail
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Bill, WEWolf, Slackitude...I need to settle on a name.
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Post by gandermail on Jun 4, 2016 17:10:01 GMT
I live close to Chicago, and used to dream of going to The Chicago Swordplay Guild, it would be about a half hour drive. In the meantime I worked from Christian Tobler's book and felt I was making good progress and definitely experienced health benefits from the regular exercise. Then, I ended up in a wheel chair. But, I can still collect and realistically, it's not like I can't still get some exercise and I was never going to actually need to use a sword.
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 6, 2016 1:33:06 GMT
Somehow completely missed this thread in its beginnings, and am just seeing it now. Goes to show how often I visit the Training subforum.
Myself, I have more an academic interest in all things bladed weapons. As my interests have become specialized and/or settled into niches, I've come to the dilemma wherein all the sharp objects I enjoy belong to art styles that have either fallen out of practice or simply aren't available where I live. For instance, my favorite blade type is the Afghan/Indian "Khyber Knife" but just try to find a good source on how one goes about using them, never mind a person who can teach any art that employs them.
JSA has been popular for years, Chinese, Filipino, Korean and HEMA/WMA go through phases where they're catching on and growing then suddenly they disappear. Never have any of them shown up in my area, though. Even if one of those opened up next door tomorrow, I wouldn't be terribly interested.
I just like keeping them around for the "hey, neat" factor of having something that hearkens back to a time before the modern era. I've moved from production into antiques a few years ago now, and I can't really say I'm pressed to move back. Unfortunately, I'm still of the school that frowns on training with antiques unless absolutely necessary, so even if something popped up to teach me how to use what I have, I would be hesitant to use what I have to train.
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Post by bluetrain on Aug 4, 2016 13:58:06 GMT
Interesting topic; it speaks to our inner selves, in a sense.
There are clubs and classes around here where I live in Northern Virginia. They're listed in the county's recreation and adult education pamphlet and in fact, there's a school on this very street where I work. One day last week must have been laundry day, because I drove by and they had all their fencing jackets draped over the handrail in front.
I used to do a lot of shooting and reloading. I was and still am very interested in guns and shooting. But I never "trained." But the whole thing became a little expensive and that was that. I mentioned elsewhere that I've owned a few swords, all old (but not antique!). At the moment I only have two, one officer's sword and one NCO sword (I was an NCO when I left the army), so I probably don't qualify as a collector. But they still fascinate me.
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Things have changed!